From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Mon, 12 Aug 2002 20:18:03 -0500 Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 20:18:03 -0500 From: Orc In A Spacesuit orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Testing bnomic-private Testing, attention please! Feel the tension as soon as someone mentions me, here’s my ten cents, my two cents is free, a new sense who sent you sent for me? Now this looks like a job for me so everyone just follow me ‘Cause we need a little controversy ‘cause it feels so empty without me. This has been a test of the Orcish Spacesuit Emegency Broadcast System. Had this been a real emergency, you would be dead. If this test succeeds and you do get this message, then the Orcish Spacesuit Emergency Broadcast System and this broadcasting station, BNomic-Private, run by bd, are working properly. Orc In A Spacesuit Current Status: So preoccupied he can't even remember to alter his signature. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Mon, 12 Aug 2002 21:27:44 -0400 Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 21:27:44 -0400 From: Bryan Donlan bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Testing bnomic-private On Monday 12 August 2002 09:18 pm, Orc In A Spacesuit wrote: > This has been a test of the Orcish Spacesuit Emegency Broadcast System.= =20 > Had this been a real emergency, you would be dead. If this test succee= ds > and you do get this message, then the Orcish Spacesuit Emergency Broadc= ast > System and this broadcasting station, BNomic-Private, run by bd, are > working properly. BEEEEEP. Had this been a real emergency, oh wait, it is. From dave@technopagan.org Thu, 15 Aug 2002 00:28:32 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 00:28:32 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Not-Recognizer I don't have time to plow through the last 150 messages sent to the two lists right now. (I've skimmed a little, and whoever it was that issued a thousand CFIs is gonna get it in the nutsack.) (By the way, about 80% of those CFIs are trivially false, since the numbers don't exist, or refer to things that aren't rules anyway.) I declare the mailing list "bnomic-private@ysolde.ucam.org" to be a Public Forum. I issue a one-day Writ of Delay. (With a little luck, I'll have the Web site moved somewhere else temporarily in the next few hours -- I've already got a dump of the database and the static pages. Ministers are requested not to do anything involving the Web site for the next few hours while I work out the details.) ...dave ---- David E. Smith (Currently homeless in Oregon) http://www.technopagan.org/ http://metadave.net/ http://www.bureau42.com/ http://whatIsay.com/ From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Wed, 14 Aug 2002 23:27:04 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 23:27:04 -0500 From: Orc In A Spacesuit orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Guess who's back I leave for 2 days and all hell breaks loose... I posted this to SpoonDiscuss and bd's new forum. Hopefully it'll get through somewhere; if you get two copies, you know what to do... I would just like to point out that all the mess in the past 2-3 days, including 1000 CFI's, jumping off the grid, and more, are completely and nicely handled in my prop. So once I get it finished please consider it. Hopefully it will not have loopholes; I've been working very hard to make it not have any for a while. Anyway, here are a few replies. I've decided to ignore the mess of rules coming down for now, as well as all the confusing stock market fixing proposals and fixes to those props. ------------------------ Glotmorf: I spend 10 Force Points to train Orc in a Spacesuit up to Padawan. Orc: Thanks! ------------------------ Glotmorf: Secondly, you can't join Team Crimson, since it's already got two members whilst Team Turquoise only has one. Orc: Actually, Athena has a team member too. I forget who, and can't access the roster right now. ------------------------ Glotmorf: I leave the grid, citing... [removed for brevity] Orc: I'm sure you remember me trying that, and pretty much everyone here agrees that that is not what that statement means. Sure, you interpert it that way, but most of us don't, the Judge in the CFI this may cause won't either, and hopefully Dave will agree with me. ------------------------ Glotmorf: Yeah, it is. Urinating on most computers would cause them to short out ("Emits showers of sparks") or otherwise become inoperable. This would trigger a State of Emergency, which would be a gamestate change. Therefore urinating on Joel's computer is an unpermitted gamestate change, and thus illegal. Orc: MAY cause the computer to short out. What if it's the keyboard? That won't actually short out the computer, and may even leave the computer functional. Plus, a shorting out wouldn't be an actual change, but be the cause of a change. ------------------------- Glotmorf: Have a look at Rule 469, Dimensional Realms. I created the idea of realms because of the idea that IRL we naturally occupy three dimensions, and don't necessarily move in any additional dimensions no matter how much we move around in our basic three. Therefore, for two players to be dimensionally in the same location, it should only be necessary for them to be within a certain distance of each other in all but three dimensions. I made it fuzzy because there are just too many variances in player dimensions to count on an exact location. This is also where dimships came in, because if all you need are all dimensions but three in common, it makes it hard (but not impossible) to avoid a dimship coming up and shooting at you...or for the other player to keep you from doing the same in response. So I think the currently defined realms would be more workable and more playable than your locations. Orc: Yes, I know what I recently said about abcdefghij is crappy. I just thought of it on the spur of the moment, and I can work in dimensional realms quite easily. That's just a way to add them later. If you still want realms and dimensions, which in the current rules are nothing but numbers, I can put them in. Just say you want them still. -------------------------- Glotmorf: "It is legal to take from Orc in a Spacesuit gnomes." Orc: Evil! Evil Evil Evil!!! Especially since I couldn't get to the internet for a few days! -------------------------- Wonko: The key part there is "would still allow the same degree of mutability we have now in all other rules". Yours would make Chutzpah immutable too. Besides, I could get around it by redefining precedence. Orc: No rule can be totally immutable with the current rules. Just take out my chutzpah line and you get the closest you can ever get to immutability with the current rules. -------------------------- BvS: To the other longer-running players: Is it just me, or are the newbies coming in better at the game and/or sharper at the tongue lately? Glotmorf: Some other Nomic game let out recently? College students returning to their dorms and accompanying internet access? Or an amazing number of lurkers who have been watching us for nweeks on end...? Orc: For me, try a college kid at home for the summer stumbles upon the game of Nomic, and in 2 days finds B Nomic, that night reads the ruleset, and the next day joins the game. Old and new people, what's your story? --------------------------- ]] }} -- Wonko Current Status: Wondering what the point of a Current Status message is. Orc: Since the current roster isn't complete (missing things like mischiviousness) or current all the time, I was going to put my own 'mini-roster' there, listing my current status if all the actions I did were legal (or, if there legality was questionable, before). However, I started using it before I joined the game, and it kind of morphed into what it is now. ---------------------------- Glotmorf: I kick bd in the ass. Just because. If there isn't sufficient justification in the LOGAS to do it, I do it anyway, just without any honor attached. Orc: Me too. ------------------------------- Orc In A Spacesuit Current Status: So preoccupied he can't even remember to alter his signature. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Thu, 15 Aug 2002 11:29:38 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 11:29:38 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Guess who's back On Thursday 15 August 2002 12:27 am, Orc In A Spacesuit wrote: > I leave for 2 days and all hell breaks loose... > I posted this to SpoonDiscuss and bd's new forum. Hopefully it'll get > through somewhere; if you get two copies, you know what to do... ONCE AGAIN, it's not my friggin' forum! > Glotmorf: "It is legal to take from Orc in a Spacesuit gnomes." > > Orc: Evil! Evil Evil Evil!!! Especially since I couldn't get to the > internet for a few days! It dosen't take effect until the end of the nweek. Add a counter-insta-ru= le. > -------------------------- > > BvS: To the other longer-running players: Is it just me, or are the new= bies > coming in better at the game and/or sharper at the tongue lately? > > Glotmorf: Some other Nomic game let out recently? College students > returning to their > dorms and accompanying internet access? Or an amazing number of lurker= s > who have been watching us for nweeks on end...? > > Orc: For me, try a college kid at home for the summer stumbles upon the > game of Nomic, and in 2 days finds B Nomic, that night reads the rulese= t, > and the next day joins the game. Old and new people, what's your story= ? I read about calvinball on c2.com wiki. I read about nomic. I want to=20 nomic.net. I searched alive games. End of story. --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Thu, 15 Aug 2002 12:40:07 -0500 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 12:40:07 -0500 From: Orc In A Spacesuit orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] (no subject) My first insta rule. "It is illegal to take from Orc in a Spacesuit gnomes." Orc In A Spacesuit Current Status: Hiding his Gnomes. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:57:18 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:57:18 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] (no subject) On Thursday 15 August 2002 01:40 pm, Orc In A Spacesuit wrote: > "It is illegal to take from Orc in a Spacesuit gnomes." [[ About time. ]] --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:00:50 -0500 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:00:50 -0500 From: Orc In A Spacesuit orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] No Rules! Arggg! I can't work on my new prop, because I need to look at the rules to see what needs changing. Anyone here have a copy they can send me? As long as it's under 70MB, I have another email account that can handle it. In fact, I could even host it on my web page. For any who care, yesterday I returned to college and now have full access to web hosting stuff. So I can host stuff if necessary. Orc In A Spacesuit Current Status: Trying to fix up football, and considering just making things up. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Thu, 15 Aug 2002 14:06:15 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 14:06:15 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] No Rules! On Thursday 15 August 2002 02:00 pm, Orc In A Spacesuit wrote: > considering just making things up. Don't sweat it. That's how we normally do it. --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:16:25 -0500 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:16:25 -0500 From: Orc In A Spacesuit orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] No Rules! >On Thursday 15 August 2002 02:00 pm, Orc In A Spacesuit wrote: > > considering just making things up. > >Don't sweat it. That's how we normally do it. > >-- >bd Well, in this prop, I want all the creativity focused on fixing loopholes and bugs in the rules, and I want to leave the way we play to remain the same. I'm saving different things for later props. This is to keep the prop from getting to scary. Orc In A Spacesuit Current Status: Wondering is Dave is going to go nuts when he tries to sor. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:19:54 -0500 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:19:54 -0500 From: Orc In A Spacesuit orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] A fix to the nuttiness I could include in my prop a kind of 'soft reset' of the game, LEAVING EVERYTHING PRETTY MUCH HOW IT IS, but stating the values of everything how we want it (unbroken), saying Wonko has 3000 BNS, nobody just 'left the grid', and nobody made a bunch of crazy cfi's. Oh wait, darnit, to include the cfi's in the reset, I'd have to go into fixing the cfi rules. Orc In A Spacesuit Current Status: Contemplating having to state the position and status of every thing in the game, and posting it on his web page. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:47:29 -0500 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:47:29 -0500 From: Orc In A Spacesuit orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Automation (Dave read this) This is a totally new idea, and Dave, please consider this, especially since it could help you do your job easier: In my prop, a lot of things are standardized. In fact, I have been creating a list of all possible actions (move, throw, force whatever, exchange (covers buy/sell)), the requirements to do so, and their effects. I came up with an idea: A sort of script/web page/whatever on which the players may choose from a list of possible actions (move, propose, vote, force absorb, etc.), choose their targets (what they are throwing, who they are throwing it at...), and any other values, like the text of a prop. Now, I'm sure all of you are wondering how it deals with illegal actions, and what good it will do anyway. First, actions do not happen just because you attempt them; the page would only allow the attempting. Whenever someone attempts an action, it is listed on a second web page, in a standard form. The admin can then easily just check off which actions fail and which succeed. Everyone else would also have easy access to see what has happened; email could even be sent out on a regular basis showing changes to the the page, for those who don't want to bother going there to see what happpened. Well, that would be kinda nice, but here's something that could be added to that: Let's say someone takes the Move action to Grid Location (5,6). The admin looks at what's going on, determines that the move is legal, and clicks the check box. For the move action, there is a tiny (one-line, maybe) script that /automatically moves that player, putting him on the correct location on the grid/. If he recognizes a CFI, all he has to do is click the checkmark, and pick a judge from the active players (an option list with their names could pop up), and sit back until a ruling comes. We wouldn't want the above paragraph to become too ingrained, of course, as the rules can change what happens. Therefore, if such a system is implemented, it would of course be wise to manually do the changes for actions that are likely to change in effect, only automating things like throws and moves and such. But still, it would likely be much easier on the admin. Finally, if my prop passes, it will be EXTREMELY easy to put /everything/ about the game into one database (And I could put it into one, if you guys want). With this done, not only could the earlier stuff in this post happen, but also this: The system could take a look at the current state of the game, and determine that "the square being moved to is not within within 1 square of the player's current location", or "the square being moved to contains an impassable object", giving /reccomendations/ about the legality of the action so the admin doesn't have to look the simple stuff up every time. I have database experience in C and Visual Basic, so could contribute to this being set up, but I don't have the java and other stuff down enough yet to do it all by myself. If nothing else, this system could provide a more detailed and accurate grid and roster, and automate some of the minstries. Orc In A Spacesuit Current Status: Already designing scripts and such in his head, in case this idea is used. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Thu, 15 Aug 2002 14:05:48 -0500 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 14:05:48 -0500 From: Orc In A Spacesuit orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] A correction A totally new idea, as far as I've seen. I'm sure lots of you have already thought of what I went over in my post; I was simply pointing out that my prop would make it very easy to do, and it seems that the Admin is getting pretty overwhelmed right now, and could use some help. I'm thinking we make a new database based on the way things are defined in my prop, we post the database online somewhere, and if the prop passes, the database is accepted as the game state, regardless of whatever (1000 CFI) foolishness goes before. Orc In A Spacesuit Current Status: Hoping to fix this game before it turns into one huge mess. Oh wait, too late. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Thu, 15 Aug 2002 21:32:21 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 21:32:21 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] A fix to the nuttiness On Thursday 15 August 2002 02:19 pm, Orc In A Spacesuit wrote: > I could include in my prop a kind of 'soft reset' of the game, LEAVING > EVERYTHING PRETTY MUCH HOW IT IS, but stating the values of everything = how > we want it (unbroken), saying Wonko has 3000 BNS, nobody just 'left the > grid', and nobody made a bunch of crazy cfi's. > Oh wait, darnit, to include the cfi's in the reset, I'd have to go into > fixing the cfi rules. Tack it ingto the proposal itself, not the rules. --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Thu, 15 Aug 2002 22:48:11 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 22:48:11 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Trying to find the Forum Have I found the Forum? I hope so, as I just told everyone this was the forum... -- Wonko Current Status: Wondering if e's found the Forum. From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Thu, 15 Aug 2002 22:59:48 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 22:59:48 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Force Ministry Right. I forgot about this last time - I updated the website but didn't tell anyone. Anyway, all the Force stuff is up-to-date - *Everyone's force went up by eir recoveries last nweek *Bean and Uin disappeared *bd advanced emself *Mithrandir, Orc, and Squire joined the game *Glotmorf paid 10 to advance Orc That's all, folks! -- Wonko Minister of the Force From glotmorf@earthlink.net Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:17:11 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:17:11 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] I came, I saw, I kicked back and reached for the Woodchuck Amber Hard Cider I thank Wonko for pointing the list out to me...lost it in my email= archive. Y'all can thank him yerselves later after I've started getting= on yer nerves... Couple things from reading the list... If OiaB's The Prop is gonna cover everything, OiaB's The Prop is never= going to get done. This is because everything routinely changes on a= dekaday basis. If it doesn't, I'm sure a few enterprising people would be= happy to contribute to make it change, just to keep someone writing eir= The Prop on eir toes. Regarding automating everything with scripts, unified databases,= error-checking web forms, etc: see above. Okay, I'm not being fair on that one. I hear, every once in a while, that= Dave has actually, God help him, automated it all, has actually written= code to do everything (even House Grem), and actually maintains it on an= nweekly basis. Despite our efforts, and our overrides of his vetos. But= it can't be easy, and there might be an alternative in the form of modular= development: each ministry constitutes its own code and database dependent= on the central database. Which will work fine as long as the ministry= crossovers don't get too terribly radical. It's what I'm doing now with= the Insta-Ministry. Now, if I can only find the time to finish the= code... Glotmorf From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:23:39 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:23:39 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] I'm evil Quoth Glotmorf, > I kick bd in the ass. Just because. If there isn't sufficient justification > in the LOGAS to do it, I do it anyway, just without any honor attached. > > Glotmorf > There are better ways to do this, you know: The American Heritage Dictionary defines 'hoax' as: n. An act intended to deceive or trick By CFI'ing the existance of 1000 rules, bd has attempted to decieve us into think that the existance of these rules is questionable. Therefore, bd has committed 1000 hoaxes, each of which were done via email. Therefore, for perpetuating an email hoax 1000 times, I kick bd in the Ass 1000 times. Have a nice day. -- Wonko From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:26:17 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:26:17 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Re: [Spoon-business] CFI Quoth bd, > I create the following CFI: > {{ > Statement: http://www.nomic.net/~g6/static/roster.html is not the Roster, as > defined in rule 24/0, is not the roster, as of the time this CFI was made. > > Analysis: Rule 24/0 states that the roster contains the email address of all > players. http://www.nomic.net/~g6/static/roster.html does not have this > information. Therefore, it is not the roster. > > Defendant: Wonko [[ Because I said so. ]] > }} So it's not the Roster. So what? By the way, I believe arbitrarily naming people defendants is officially Unbridled Hostility(tm). Therefore, for unbridled hostility towards another player, I Kick bd in the Ass. Actually it's because your 1000 CFI's irritated me, but I've already kicked you for that. So here's another reason! -- Wonko From glotmorf@earthlink.net Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:30:46 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:30:46 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] I'm evil On 8/15/02 at 11:23 PM Wonko wrote: >Quoth Glotmorf, > >> I kick bd in the ass. Just because. If there isn't sufficient >justification >> in the LOGAS to do it, I do it anyway, just without any honor attached. >> >> Glotmorf >> > >There are better ways to do this, you know: > >The American Heritage Dictionary defines 'hoax' as: >n. An act intended to deceive or trick > >By CFI'ing the existance of 1000 rules, bd has attempted to decieve us= into >think that the existance of these rules is questionable. > >Therefore, bd has committed 1000 hoaxes, each of which were done via= email. > >Therefore, for perpetuating an email hoax 1000 times, I kick bd in the Ass >1000 times. > >Have a nice day. Okay, but that means there's sufficient justification in the LOGAS for my= kick in bd's ass, which means I did it first and get the attendant honor.= Though I acknowledge the sheer pleasure you must have enjoyed from= overindulgence. Glotmorf From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:36:22 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:36:22 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] I'm evil Quoth Glotmorf, > On 8/15/02 at 11:23 PM Wonko wrote: > >> Quoth Glotmorf, >> >>> I kick bd in the ass. Just because. If there isn't sufficient >> justification >>> in the LOGAS to do it, I do it anyway, just without any honor attached. >>> >>> Glotmorf >>> >> >> There are better ways to do this, you know: >> >> The American Heritage Dictionary defines 'hoax' as: >> n. An act intended to deceive or trick >> >> By CFI'ing the existance of 1000 rules, bd has attempted to decieve us into >> think that the existance of these rules is questionable. >> >> Therefore, bd has committed 1000 hoaxes, each of which were done via email. >> >> Therefore, for perpetuating an email hoax 1000 times, I kick bd in the Ass >> 1000 times. >> >> Have a nice day. > > Okay, but that means there's sufficient justification in the LOGAS for my kick > in bd's ass, which means I did it first and get the attendant honor. Though I > acknowledge the sheer pleasure you must have enjoyed from overindulgence. > Take the honor. I just wanted to kick the shit out of something. ;) -- Wonko From glotmorf@earthlink.net Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:43:22 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:43:22 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] I'm evil On 8/15/02 at 11:36 PM Wonko wrote: >Quoth Glotmorf, > >> On 8/15/02 at 11:23 PM Wonko wrote: >> >>> Quoth Glotmorf, >>> >>>> I kick bd in the ass. Just because. If there isn't sufficient >>> justification >>>> in the LOGAS to do it, I do it anyway, just without any honor= attached. >>>> >>>> Glotmorf >>>> >>> >>> There are better ways to do this, you know: >>> >>> The American Heritage Dictionary defines 'hoax' as: >>> n. An act intended to deceive or trick >>> >>> By CFI'ing the existance of 1000 rules, bd has attempted to decieve us >into >>> think that the existance of these rules is questionable. >>> >>> Therefore, bd has committed 1000 hoaxes, each of which were done via >email. >>> >>> Therefore, for perpetuating an email hoax 1000 times, I kick bd in the >Ass >>> 1000 times. >>> >>> Have a nice day. >> >> Okay, but that means there's sufficient justification in the LOGAS for >my kick >> in bd's ass, which means I did it first and get the attendant honor. >Though I >> acknowledge the sheer pleasure you must have enjoyed from= overindulgence. >> > >Take the honor. I just wanted to kick the shit out of something. ;) Gee...that sounds like Unbridled Hostility(tm). Not that I'd convict= you...:) Glotmorf From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:43:37 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:43:37 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] I'm evil > > I kick bd in the ass. Just because. If there isn't sufficient >justification > > in the LOGAS to do it, I do it anyway, just without any honor attached. > > > > Glotmorf > > > >There are better ways to do this, you know: > >The American Heritage Dictionary defines 'hoax' as: >n. An act intended to deceive or trick > >By CFI'ing the existance of 1000 rules, bd has attempted to decieve us into >think that the existance of these rules is questionable. > >Therefore, bd has committed 1000 hoaxes, each of which were done via email. > >Therefore, for perpetuating an email hoax 1000 times, I kick bd in the Ass >1000 times. > >Have a nice day. > >-- >Wonko > -[[Although it might be noted that well over half of those 1000 do not, in fact, exist. So you can only kick him once per rule that does exist. However, I can get him for all 1000. See, there are 14 other players in the Game, and 1000 CFIs. Each player will have to take more than 70 of those. That's a lot, and making us do that shows intense disrespect for the rest of us. In fact, each and every one of those CFIs is hostile against the poor player who has to Judge it. As such:]] I kick bd in the Ass 1000 times for "unbridled hostility" [[it's in the ruleset. I'm quoting.]] against all "players" [[quoting again]] but "emself" [[Spivak rule]]. [[Have a nice day, bd.]] -BvS- _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:50:54 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:50:54 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] I'm evil > >>>> I kick bd in the ass. Just because. If there isn't sufficient > >>> justification > >>>> in the LOGAS to do it, I do it anyway, just without any honor >attached. > >>>> > >>>> Glotmorf > >>>> > >>> > >>> There are better ways to do this, you know: > >>> > >>> The American Heritage Dictionary defines 'hoax' as: > >>> n. An act intended to deceive or trick > >>> > >>> By CFI'ing the existance of 1000 rules, bd has attempted to decieve us > >into > >>> think that the existance of these rules is questionable. > >>> > >>> Therefore, bd has committed 1000 hoaxes, each of which were done via > >email. > >>> > >>> Therefore, for perpetuating an email hoax 1000 times, I kick bd in the > >Ass > >>> 1000 times. > >>> > >>> Have a nice day. > >> > >> Okay, but that means there's sufficient justification in the LOGAS for > >my kick > >> in bd's ass, which means I did it first and get the attendant honor. > >Though I > >> acknowledge the sheer pleasure you must have enjoyed from >overindulgence. > >> > > > >Take the honor. I just wanted to kick the shit out of something. ;) > >Gee...that sounds like Unbridled Hostility(tm). Not that I'd convict >you...:) > > Glotmorf > -[[Damn entropy. Anyway, I don't think bd has subscribed to this list yet. So you're probably okay there, Wonko.]]- -BvS- _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From glotmorf@earthlink.net Fri, 16 Aug 2002 00:00:48 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 00:00:48 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] I'm evil On 8/15/02 at 11:43 PM Baron von Skippy wrote: >-[[Although it might be noted that well over half of those 1000 do not, in= >fact, exist. So you can only kick him once per rule that does exist. >However, I can get him for all 1000. See, there are 14 other players in >the >Game, and 1000 CFIs. Each player will have to take more than 70 of those. >That's a lot, and making us do that shows intense disrespect for the rest >of >us. In fact, each and every one of those CFIs is hostile against the poor >player who has to Judge it. As such:]] > >I kick bd in the Ass 1000 times for "unbridled hostility" [[it's in the >ruleset. I'm quoting.]] against all "players" [[quoting again]] but >"emself" >[[Spivak rule]]. > >[[Have a nice day, bd.]] Very good point. Since each of us, thinking in terms of statistics, will= be burdened by an ungodly number of CFIs to judge, bd is guilty of= "Unbridled Hostility" against each of us, the act of it against each= person being an act separate from the acts of it against the others.= Therefore, each of us can kick bd in the ass over this and get points for= it. At least the first kick. Glotmorf From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Fri, 16 Aug 2002 00:02:28 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 00:02:28 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] I'm evil > >-[[Although it might be noted that well over half of those 1000 do not, >in > >fact, exist. So you can only kick him once per rule that does exist. > >However, I can get him for all 1000. See, there are 14 other players in > >the > >Game, and 1000 CFIs. Each player will have to take more than 70 of those. > >That's a lot, and making us do that shows intense disrespect for the rest > >of > >us. In fact, each and every one of those CFIs is hostile against the poor > >player who has to Judge it. As such:]] > > > >I kick bd in the Ass 1000 times for "unbridled hostility" [[it's in the > >ruleset. I'm quoting.]] against all "players" [[quoting again]] but > >"emself" > >[[Spivak rule]]. > > > >[[Have a nice day, bd.]] > >Very good point. Since each of us, thinking in terms of statistics, will >be burdened by an ungodly number of CFIs to judge, bd is guilty of >"Unbridled Hostility" against each of us, the act of it against each person >being an act separate from the acts of it against the others. Therefore, >each of us can kick bd in the ass over this and get points for it. > >At least the first kick. > > Glotmorf > -[[Well, the first 14, actually. I'm kicking him for everyone. So I suppose I don't get points for the other 986 kicks? Pity. That would be a hilarious way to win.]]- -BvS- _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Fri, 16 Aug 2002 01:37:30 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 01:37:30 -0500 From: Orc In A Spacesuit orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Synopsis I would first like to thank Glotmorf for the force training and the rules mailed to me. Here is a synopsis of everything that still matters that has happened from when Joel disconnected to now, Friday August 15, 1:35 AM CST: Remember, as this is a public forum, all messages are official, just as if they were on spoon-business. Also, I cut a lot out of just about every message for brevity. ========================================= [Complete message from Dave, making this list official] >From dave@technopagan.org Thu, 15 Aug 2002 00:28:32 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 00:28:32 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Not-Recognizer I don't have time to plow through the last 150 messages sent to the two lists right now. (I've skimmed a little, and whoever it was that issued a thousand CFIs is gonna get it in the nutsack.) (By the way, about 80% of those CFIs are trivially false, since the numbers don't exist, or refer to things that aren't rules anyway.) I declare the mailing list "bnomic-private@ysolde.ucam.org" to be a Public Forum. I issue a one-day Writ of Delay. (With a little luck, I'll have the Web site moved somewhere else temporarily in the next few hours -- I've already got a dump of the database and the static pages. Ministers are requested not to do anything involving the Web site for the next few hours while I work out the details.) ...dave ========================================= [One of Orc's batch replies] >From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Wed, 14 Aug 2002 23:27:04 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 23:27:04 -0500 I leave for 2 days and all hell breaks loose... I posted this to SpoonDiscuss and bd's new forum. Hopefully it'll get through somewhere; if you get two copies, you know what to do... I would just like to point out that all the mess in the past 2-3 days, including 1000 CFI's, jumping off the grid, and more, are completely and nicely handled in my prop. So once I get it finished please consider it. Hopefully it will not have loopholes; I've been working very hard to make it not have any for a while. Anyway, here are a few replies. I've decided to ignore the mess of rules coming down for now, as well as all the confusing stock market fixing proposals and fixes to those props. -------------------------- Glotmorf: Secondly, you can't join Team Crimson, since it's already got two members whilst Team Turquoise only has one. Orc: Actually, Athena has a team member too. I forget who, and can't access the roster right now. ------------------------ Glotmorf: I leave the grid, citing... [removed for brevity] Orc: I'm sure you remember me trying that, and pretty much everyone here agrees that that is not what that statement means. Sure, you interpert it that way, but most of us don't, the Judge in the CFI this may cause won't either, and hopefully Dave will agree with me. ------------------------ Glotmorf: Yeah, it is. Urinating on most computers would cause them to short out ("Emits showers of sparks") or otherwise become inoperable. This would trigger a State of Emergency, which would be a gamestate change. Therefore urinating on Joel's computer is an unpermitted gamestate change, and thus illegal. Orc: MAY cause the computer to short out. What if it's the keyboard? That won't actually short out the computer, and may even leave the computer functional. Plus, a shorting out wouldn't be an actual change, but be the cause of a change. ------------------------- Glotmorf: Have a look at Rule 469, Dimensional Realms. I created the idea of realms because of the idea that IRL we naturally occupy three dimensions, and don't necessarily move in any additional dimensions no matter how much we move around in our basic three. Therefore, for two players to be dimensionally in the same location, it should only be necessary for them to be within a certain distance of each other in all but three dimensions. I made it fuzzy because there are just too many variances in player dimensions to count on an exact location. This is also where dimships came in, because if all you need are all dimensions but three in common, it makes it hard (but not impossible) to avoid a dimship coming up and shooting at you...or for the other player to keep you from doing the same in response. So I think the currently defined realms would be more workable and more playable than your locations. Orc: Yes, I know what I recently said about abcdefghij is crappy. I just thought of it on the spur of the moment, and I can work in dimensional realms quite easily. That's just a way to add them later. If you still want realms and dimensions, which in the current rules are nothing but numbers, I can put them in. Just say you want them still. -------------------------- Wonko: The key part there is "would still allow the same degree of mutability we have now in all other rules". Yours would make Chutzpah immutable too. Besides, I could get around it by redefining precedence. Orc: No rule can be totally immutable with the current rules. Just take out my chutzpah line and you get the closest you can ever get to immutability with the current rules. -------------------------- -- Wonko Current Status: Wondering what the point of a Current Status message is. Orc: Since the current roster isn't complete (missing things like mischiviousness) or current all the time, I was going to put my own 'mini-roster' there, listing my current status if all the actions I did were legal (or, if there legality was questionable, before). However, I started using it before I joined the game, and it kind of morphed into what it is now. ---------------------------- Glotmorf: I kick bd in the ass. Just because. If there isn't sufficient justification in the LOGAS to do it, I do it anyway, just without any honor attached. Orc: Me too. =================================== [A bit about who we are, conversation-style] BvS: To the other longer-running players: Is it just me, or are the newbies coming in better at the game and/or sharper at the tongue lately? Glotmorf: Some other Nomic game let out recently? College students returning to their dorms and accompanying internet access? Or an amazing number of lurkers who have been watching us for nweeks on end...? Orc: For me, try a college kid at home for the summer stumbles upon the game of Nomic, and in 2 days finds B Nomic, that night reads the ruleset, and the next day joins the game. Old and new people, what's your story? bd: I read about calvinball on c2.com wiki. I read about nomic. I want to nomic.net. I searched alive games. End of story. ==================================== [ACTION] >From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Thu, 15 Aug 2002 12:40:07 -0500 My first insta rule: "It is illegal to take from Orc in a Spacesuit gnomes." ==================================== [Just a message] Orc: For any who care, yesterday I returned to college and now have full access to web hosting stuff. So I can host stuff if necessary. ==================================== [Fix the nuttiness] >From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:19:54 -0500 I could include in my prop a kind of 'soft reset' of the game, LEAVING EVERYTHING PRETTY MUCH HOW IT IS, but stating the values of everything how we want it (unbroken), saying Wonko has 3000 BNS, nobody just 'left the grid', and nobody made a bunch of crazy cfi's. Oh wait, darnit, to include the cfi's in the reset, I'd have to go into fixing the cfi rules. At least, do it right, anyway. ==================================== [Automation-Read This(edited from original post] >From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:47:29 -0500 This is a totally new idea on my part, at least as far as posting it. I'm sure we've all had ideas on these lines before. And Dave, please consider this, especially since it could help you do your job easier: In my prop, a lot of things are standardized. In fact, I have been creating a list of all possible actions (move, throw, force whatever, exchange (covers buy/sell)), the requirements to do so, and their effects. I came up with an idea: A sort of script/web page/whatever on which the players may choose from a list of possible actions (move, propose, vote, force absorb, etc.), choose their targets (what they are throwing, who they are throwing it at...), and any other values, like the text of a prop. Now, I'm sure all of you are wondering how it deals with illegal actions, and what good it will do anyway. First, actions do not happen just because you attempt them; the page would only allow the attempting. Whenever someone attempts an action, it is listed on a second web page, in a standard form. The admin can then easily just check off which actions fail and which succeed. Everyone else would also have easy access to see what has happened; email could even be sent out on a regular basis showing changes to the the page, for those who don't want to bother going there to see what happpened. Well, that would be kinda nice, but here's something that could be added to that: Let's say someone takes the Move action to Grid Location (5,6). The admin looks at what's going on, determines that the move is legal, and clicks the check box. For the move action, there is a tiny (one-line, maybe) script that /automatically moves that player, putting him on the correct location on the grid/. If he recognizes a CFI, all he has to do is click the checkmark, and pick a judge from the active players (an option list with their names could pop up), and sit back until a ruling comes. We wouldn't want the above paragraph to become too ingrained, of course, as the rules can change what happens. Therefore, if such a system is implemented, it would of course be wise to manually do the changes for actions that are likely to change in effect, only automating things like throws and moves and such. But still, it would likely be much easier on the admin. Finally, if my prop passes, it will be EXTREMELY easy to put /everything/ about the game into one database (And I could put it into one, if you guys want). With this done, not only could the earlier stuff in this post happen, but also this: The system could take a look at the current state of the game, and determine that "the square being moved to is not within within 1 square of the player's current location", or "the square being moved to contains an impassable object", giving /reccomendations/ about the legality of the action so the admin doesn't have to look the simple stuff up every time. I have database experience in C and Visual Basic, so could contribute to this being set up, but I don't have the java and other stuff down enough yet to do it all by myself. If nothing else, this system could provide a more detailed and accurate grid and roster, and automate some of the minstries. The reason I bring this idea up is that Dave seems overwhelmed, especially with the 1000 cfi and other foolishness. ================================= [Wonko ministers us] >From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Thu, 15 Aug 2002 22:59:48 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 22:59:48 -0400 Right. I forgot about this last time - I updated the website but didn't tell anyone. Anyway, all the Force stuff is up-to-date - *Everyone's force went up by eir recoveries last nweek *Bean and Uin disappeared *bd advanced emself *Mithrandir, Orc, and Squire joined the game *Glotmorf paid 10 to advance Orc ================================== [Glotmorf's thoughts on Orc's prop and the database thing] >From glotmorf@earthlink.net Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:17:11 -0400 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:17:11 -0400 Couple things from reading the list... If OiaB's The Prop is gonna cover everything, OiaB's The Prop is never= going to get done. This is because everything routinely changes on a= dekaday basis. If it doesn't, I'm sure a few enterprising people would be= happy to contribute to make it change, just to keep someone writing eir= The Prop on eir toes. Regarding automating everything with scripts, unified databases,= error-checking web forms, etc: see above. Okay, I'm not being fair on that one. I hear, every once in a while, that= Dave has actually, God help him, automated it all, has actually written= code to do everything (even House Grem), and actually maintains it on an= nweekly basis. Despite our efforts, and our overrides of his vetos. But= it can't be easy, and there might be an alternative in the form of modular= development: each ministry constitutes its own code and database dependent= on the central database. Which will work fine as long as the ministry= crossovers don't get too terribly radical. It's what I'm doing now with= the Insta-Ministry. Now, if I can only find the time to finish the= code... ==================================== [A summary] Seems like bd ought to be getting a Mithril Buttplate from all the kicking he's getting. Basically, several people kick him, a lot. Thousands of times, even. Wonko enjoys it, and BvS points out if bd really could be kicked once for every CFI (it's been called Unbridled Hostility by some), it would be a very interesting way to win (5 points per kick). Of course, this can't happen, because even if what he did was kickable, you can only get kicked once per forum message. ===================================== [Wonko on the Roster] Quoth bd, >I create the following CFI: >{{ >Statement: http://www.nomic.net/~g6/static/roster.html is not the Roster, >as >defined in rule 24/0, is not the roster, as of the time this CFI was made. > >Analysis: Rule 24/0 states that the roster contains the email address of >all >players. http://www.nomic.net/~g6/static/roster.html does not have this >information. Therefore, it is not the roster. > >Defendant: Wonko [[ Because I said so. ]] >}} So it's not the Roster. So what? =================================== Orc In A Spacesuit _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Fri, 16 Aug 2002 02:06:44 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 02:06:44 -0500 From: Orc In A Spacesuit orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Orc's stuff I have posted the current state of my prop, and some more stuff, online. Remeber, this is a work in progress, so don't slam me yet, but I do welcome comments, including those pointing out things I missed. The database there doesn't really have useful values yet. It's currently just got some of the structure made. As for the problems with scripting and the big prop and how things change: My prop is being designed with flexibility in mind. For minor additions, very little wording is needed; the groundwork covers the contingincies (sp?). For exceptions, the entire thing is designed to let exceptions be all over, without setting of conflictions. And for sweeping changes, all the elements are encapsulated, so if you for some reason wanted to make the grid multi-dimensional, add a new mini-game, redo the time system, whatever, you can do that part without disrupting the rest. With scripting, if done right, things can be easily adapted to the rules. Just as we write rules in English, so can things be written in code, often with ease. Making a baseball minigame? Hmm, just need add a few database items (Baseball, bats), set a few properties(Baseball Player, 1st Base), and add a couple of actions (Pitch, Swing) and, if feeling fancy, some scripts (determine if hitting is legal). In any case with the automated system I propose, the Admin still has the final say on EVERYTHING. All the scripts do is make _suggestions_ based on the rules (say whether it thinks something is legal), or take default actions (changing position of a player from a move action) IF THE ADMIN CHOOSES TO. If the Admin wants, he go do everything manually. Orc In A Spacesuit Current Status: Unable to tell, due to extreme gamestate wonkiness. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Fri, 16 Aug 2002 02:11:31 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 02:11:31 -0500 From: Orc In A Spacesuit orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Doofus Orc forgot the URL Duh. I talked about the stuff I put up, and forgot the URL. Here it is: http://comp.uark.edu/~jas29/nomic/ On the rules, I still need to go through the current ruleset and see what needs changing; I also plan to rework actions and events if I have the chance. Orc In A Spacesuit _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Fri, 16 Aug 2002 08:25:17 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 08:25:17 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] I'm evil Quoth Baron von Skippy, >>> I kick bd in the ass. Just because. If there isn't sufficient >> justification >>> in the LOGAS to do it, I do it anyway, just without any honor attached. >>> >>> Glotmorf >>> >> >> There are better ways to do this, you know: >> >> The American Heritage Dictionary defines 'hoax' as: >> n. An act intended to deceive or trick >> >> By CFI'ing the existance of 1000 rules, bd has attempted to decieve us into >> think that the existance of these rules is questionable. >> >> Therefore, bd has committed 1000 hoaxes, each of which were done via email. >> >> Therefore, for perpetuating an email hoax 1000 times, I kick bd in the Ass >> 1000 times. >> >> Have a nice day. >> >> -- >> Wonko >> > -[[Although it might be noted that well over half of those 1000 do not, in > fact, exist. So you can only kick him once per rule that does exist. > However, I can get him for all 1000. See, there are 14 other players in the > Game, and 1000 CFIs. Each player will have to take more than 70 of those. > That's a lot, and making us do that shows intense disrespect for the rest of > us. In fact, each and every one of those CFIs is hostile against the poor > player who has to Judge it. As such:]] > > I kick bd in the Ass 1000 times for "unbridled hostility" [[it's in the > ruleset. I'm quoting.]] against all "players" [[quoting again]] but "emself" > [[Spivak rule]]. > > [[Have a nice day, bd.]] Oh no, I can kick em for all 1000 - e tried to convince us that we didn't know whether or not any rule numbered between 0 and 1000 existed. Casting doubt on, say, rule 1000's failure to exist is also a hoax. Wait a minute, there're 1001 CFI's there, not 1000, since it goes from 0-1000. I guess I forgot about bd's rule 0 hoax. For perpetuating an email hoax, I Kick bd in the Ass. -- Wonko From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Fri, 16 Aug 2002 08:54:28 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 08:54:28 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Synopsis Quoth Orc In A Spacesuit, > > I would first like to thank Glotmorf for the force training and the rules > mailed to me. > > Here is a synopsis of everything that still matters that has happened from > when Joel disconnected to now, Friday August 15, 1:35 AM CST: > Remember, as this is a public forum, all messages are official, just as if > they were on spoon-business. Also, I cut a lot out of just about every > message for brevity. > > Wonko: The key part there is "would still allow the same degree of > mutability we have now in all other rules". Yours would make > Chutzpah immutable too. > > Besides, I could get around it by redefining precedence. > > Orc: No rule can be totally immutable with the current rules. Just take out > my chutzpah line and you get the closest you can ever get to immutability > with the current rules. That's the conclusion I reached too. I just wanted to see if anyone could come up with something I wasn't seeing. > =================================== > [A bit about who we are, conversation-style] > > BvS: To the other longer-running players: Is it just me, or are the > newbies coming in better at the game and/or sharper at the tongue lately? > > Glotmorf: Some other Nomic game let out recently? College students > returning to their dorms and accompanying internet access? Or an > amazing number of lurkers who have been watching us for nweeks on end...? > > Orc: For me, try a college kid at home for the summer stumbles upon the > game of Nomic, and in 2 days finds B Nomic, that night reads the ruleset, > and the next day joins the game. Old and new people, what's your story? > > bd: I read about calvinball on c2.com wiki. I read about nomic. I want to > nomic.net. I searched alive games. End of story. One of my friends returned from vacation, bringing tales of a strange game similar to some that I knew but much more freeform. I looked it up, and soon a face game had started among myself and some associates. Our ruleset, however, soon became terminally screwed, and I began to look elsewhere for Nomic to play. I found this game on December 10, 5 days after its creation, and joined about a week later. > ==================================== > [Automation-Read This(edited from original post] > > From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:47:29 -0500 > > This is a totally new idea on my part, at least as far as posting it. > I'm sure we've all had ideas on these lines before. And Dave, > please consider this, especially since it could help you do your job > easier: > > In my prop, a lot of things are standardized. In fact, I have been creating > a list of all possible actions (move, throw, force whatever, exchange > (covers buy/sell)), the requirements to do so, and their effects. I came up > with an idea: > > A sort of script/web page/whatever on which the players may choose from a > list of possible actions (move, propose, vote, force absorb, etc.), choose > their targets (what they are throwing, who they are throwing it at...), and > any other values, like the text of a prop. > > Now, I'm sure all of you are wondering how it deals with illegal actions, > and what good it will do anyway. First, actions do not happen just because > you attempt them; the page would only allow the attempting. Whenever > someone attempts an action, it is listed on a second web page, in a standard > form. The admin can then easily just check off which actions fail and which > succeed. Everyone else would also have easy access to see what has > happened; email could even be sent out on a regular basis showing changes to > the the page, for those who don't want to bother going there to see what > happpened. > > Well, that would be kinda nice, but here's something that could be added to > that: Let's say someone takes the Move action to Grid Location (5,6). The > admin looks at what's going on, determines that the move is legal, and > clicks the check box. For the move action, there is a tiny (one-line, > maybe) script that /automatically moves that player, putting him on the > correct location on the grid/. If he recognizes a CFI, all he has to do is > click the checkmark, and pick a judge from the active players (an option > list with their names could pop up), and sit back until a ruling comes. > > We wouldn't want the above paragraph to become too ingrained, of course, as > the rules can change what happens. Therefore, if such a system is > implemented, it would of course be wise to manually do the changes for > actions that are likely to change in effect, only automating things like > throws and moves and such. But still, it would likely be much easier on the > admin. > > Finally, if my prop passes, it will be EXTREMELY easy to put /everything/ > about the game into one database (And I could put it into one, if you guys > want). With this done, not only could the earlier stuff in this post > happen, but also this: The system could take a look at the current state of > the game, and determine that "the square being moved to is not within within > 1 square of the player's current location", or "the square being moved to > contains an impassable object", giving /reccomendations/ about the legality > of the action so the admin doesn't have to look the simple stuff up every > time. > > I have database experience in C and Visual Basic, so could contribute to > this being set up, but I don't have the java and other stuff down enough yet > to do it all by myself. > > If nothing else, this system could provide a more detailed and accurate grid > and roster, and automate some of the minstries. The reason I bring this > idea > up is that Dave seems overwhelmed, especially with the 1000 cfi and other > foolishness. I've actually been working on programs that work as you've described - the Ministry of the Force website, for example, is actually written by a spiffy little interface program I wrote, so all I have to do is post it online. I'd also been thinking of adapting ForceLord slightly to take on other ministries as well (I actually laid out all the plans for a GridLord program, but I never wrote it 'cause WC then got the Ministry). But I don't know much Java or any other web-oriented language, so I'm not sure if what I've written can be useful at all... > ================================== > [Glotmorf's thoughts on Orc's prop and the database thing] > > From glotmorf@earthlink.net Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:17:11 -0400 > Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:17:11 -0400 > > Couple things from reading the list... > > If OiaB's The Prop is gonna cover everything, OiaB's The Prop is never= > going to get done. This is because everything routinely changes on a= > dekaday basis. If it doesn't, I'm sure a few enterprising people would be= > happy to contribute to make it change, just to keep someone writing eir= > The Prop on eir toes. > > Regarding automating everything with scripts, unified databases,= > error-checking web forms, etc: see above. > > Okay, I'm not being fair on that one. I hear, every once in a while, that= > Dave has actually, God help him, automated it all, has actually written= > code to do everything (even House Grem), and actually maintains it on an= > nweekly basis. Despite our efforts, and our overrides of his vetos. But= > it can't be easy, and there might be an alternative in the form of modular= > development: each ministry constitutes its own code and database dependent= > on the central database. Which will work fine as long as the ministry= > crossovers don't get too terribly radical. It's what I'm doing now with= > the Insta-Ministry. Now, if I can only find the time to finish the= > code... Of course, if it were all one program, the crossovers would be considerably easier - for example, the Ministry of the Ordinance Survey and the Ministry of the Force would never need to be throwing messages at each other saying, "bd's Force bonus box finding is recognized." "bd's Force bonus box finding is recognized, refilling eir Force. bd Force Pulls for 6 Force Points." "bd's Force Pulling is recognized - a Sheep gnome moves from (x,y) to (x,y)" etc. If we wrote it all as one program, wouldn't it be easiest just to make it like some sort of MUD? > ==================================== > [A summary] > > Seems like bd ought to be getting a Mithril Buttplate from all the > kicking he's getting. Basically, several people kick him, a lot. > Thousands of times, even. Wonko enjoys it, and BvS points out > if bd really could be kicked once for every CFI (it's been called > Unbridled Hostility by some), it would be a very interesting way to > win (5 points per kick). Of course, this can't happen, because even > if what he did was kickable, you can only get kicked once per forum > message. But we're not kicking em for eir forum message - we're kicking em for actions taking therein. E may not be kicked twice for the same action taken, but the per forum thing is for issues where the kick is delivered not for what game action e took, but for what message e sent (for example, if e were to send an HTML message). I believe I can kick em 1001 times, once per offensive action taken. The Baron, however, cannot perform all those kicks, as I already kicked bd for all those actions. I would then like to point out that the buttplates rule does not supercede the kicking rule; therefore, while bd does gain the attribute 'buttplated', it does not stop me from gaining well over 1000 points (5005, to be exact), or from gaining the attribute 'Supreme Kicker of Asses'. -- Wonko From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Fri, 16 Aug 2002 09:06:48 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 09:06:48 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] I'm evil On Thursday 15 August 2002 11:50 pm, Baron von Skippy wrote: > I don't think bd has subscribed to this list yet. Oh, really? --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Fri, 16 Aug 2002 09:11:03 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 09:11:03 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Synopsis On Friday 16 August 2002 08:54 am, Wonko wrote: > If we wrote it all as one program, wouldn't it be easiest just to make = it > like some sort of MUD? mmm... MUD nomic... I thought about this once and concluded that it was t= oo=20 much work. Maybe when we have self-programming computers. --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From glotmorf@earthlink.net Fri, 16 Aug 2002 09:44:07 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 09:44:07 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Synopsis On 8/16/02 at 8:54 AM Wonko wrote: >Quoth Orc In A Spacesuit, > >> [A bit about who we are, conversation-style] >> >> Orc: For me, try a college kid at home for the summer stumbles upon the >> game of Nomic, and in 2 days finds B Nomic, that night reads the= ruleset, >> and the next day joins the game. Old and new people, what's your story? >> >> bd: I read about calvinball on c2.com wiki. I read about nomic. I want= to >> nomic.net. I searched alive games. End of story. > >One of my friends returned from vacation, bringing tales of a strange game >similar to some that I knew but much more freeform. I looked it up, and >soon >a face game had started among myself and some associates. Our ruleset, >however, soon became terminally screwed, and I began to look elsewhere for >Nomic to play. I found this game on December 10, 5 days after its= creation, >and joined about a week later. I'd played Nomic off and on over a few years. I was a winner in Nomopoly= II, played unremarkably in a few Imperials, and tried to run Blind Nomic= (which gave me an appreciation for Administrator Burnout). Last December= I decided I was undergamed and went looking for Nomic games -- Yahoo= yields interesting search results for "nomic" -- and found nomic.net, and= consequently B Nomic. I joined in nweek 3. Never played FTF, and am= inclined to think it'd be considerably more difficult, at least because of= tracking the current ruleset. FTF in a cybercafe or a college computer= lab would be another matter... >> I have database experience in C and Visual Basic, so could contribute to >> this being set up, but I don't have the java and other stuff down enough >yet >> to do it all by myself. >> >> If nothing else, this system could provide a more detailed and accurate >grid >> and roster, and automate some of the minstries. The reason I bring this >> idea >> up is that Dave seems overwhelmed, especially with the 1000 cfi and= other >> foolishness. > >I've actually been working on programs that work as you've described - the >Ministry of the Force website, for example, is actually written by a= spiffy >little interface program I wrote, so all I have to do is post it online. >I'd >also been thinking of adapting ForceLord slightly to take on other >ministries as well (I actually laid out all the plans for a GridLord >program, but I never wrote it 'cause WC then got the Ministry). But I= don't >know much Java or any other web-oriented language, so I'm not sure if what >I've written can be useful at all... Something that might be useful is externally-connectable databases, like= SQL or ODBC servers, so that coding and database development isn't= restricted to a single server. I'm coding on Joel's server, maintaining= my own database and connecting to Dave's on a read-only basis, but it= isn't technically necessary that this be the case. Not that I fault Joel= in any way, but somehow I suspect he doesn't really want to give a login= ID and database to each player of a single game... >If we wrote it all as one program, wouldn't it be easiest just to make it >like some sort of MUD? I hear tell there was a Nomic MUD out there. No idea how well it operated. A MUD (I might suggest MUX, actually) would give us a user environment= independent of the host's operating system, which would probably be a Good= Thing...I'd guess Joel doesn't want that many people to have shell= accounts on nomic.net. But you'd need something that could act as a= database (MU*s don't appear to have effective data search mechanisms),= something that permitted hierarchical access to data (central pool run by= Mr. A that peripheral pools connected to), and access to web and email= (can't say I'd want to try to study the rules through telnet). I don't= believe MU*s are up to all this yet. >>= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> [A summary] >> >> Seems like bd ought to be getting a Mithril Buttplate from all the >> kicking he's getting. Basically, several people kick him, a lot. >> Thousands of times, even. Wonko enjoys it, and BvS points out >> if bd really could be kicked once for every CFI (it's been called >> Unbridled Hostility by some), it would be a very interesting way to >> win (5 points per kick). Of course, this can't happen, because even >> if what he did was kickable, you can only get kicked once per forum >> message. > >But we're not kicking em for eir forum message - we're kicking em for >actions taking therein. E may not be kicked twice for the same action >taken, >but the per forum thing is for issues where the kick is delivered not for >what game action e took, but for what message e sent (for example, if e >were >to send an HTML message). > >I believe I can kick em 1001 times, once per offensive action taken. > >The Baron, however, cannot perform all those kicks, as I already kicked bd >for all those actions. > >I would then like to point out that the buttplates rule does not supercede >the kicking rule; therefore, while bd does gain the attribute= 'buttplated', >it does not stop me from gaining well over 1000 points (5005, to be= exact), >or from gaining the attribute 'Supreme Kicker of Asses'. >From Rule 260: "Multiple Kicks in the Ass may not be given in response to a= single Action or Forum message." Guess we need a ruling on whether that's an inclusive "or" or an exclusive= "or". Aside from that, we might have a problem kicking bd once per action taken,= since any single one of those 1001 actions (Scheherazade Nomic?) isn't all= that offensive...just stupid. It's the amassing of them that's offensive.= For example, if I take my portion of them (70-some, wasn't it?), I could= regard it as a shitload of judgment work I'd probably be stuck with, a= massive insult to my intelligence, a waste of perfectly good email archive= space, etc. But any one of those 70-some wouldn't be that much work to= judge, might be funny in a retro-uin sorta thang, wouldn't consume that= much space, and so on... Aha! Now I see it. "Action" was redefined in the context of Rule 260:= "Whenever a player performs an action that is on the List of Generally= Abhorred Stuff in a public forum, any player may respond in a public forum= to the forum message containing that action, indicating that e is giving= that player a Kick in the Ass, and the reason why." So even though that= message contained 1001 game actions, the collective mass of them produce a= single kick-in-the-ass action. And since Unbridled Hostility against the= collective body of players is sort of part of the game, I'd say this body= of game actions resulted in one kick-in-the-ass action of Unbridled= Hostility (insulted intelligence, spammage, etc) against each player= individually. So whoever feels offended by bd's game-action collection= gets eir own kick. One kick apiece. That's still, what, 14 kicks? Works for me. Glotmorf From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Fri, 16 Aug 2002 12:36:08 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 12:36:08 -0500 From: Orc In A Spacesuit orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Double posting >From: "Glotmorf" >Dude...I'm getting two copies of each of your messages. You >double-posting? > > Glotmorf Sorry about that; I was mailing to both bnomic-private and to everyone individually, to make sure everyone got the synopsis. Sorry about that, I'll quit now. Orc In A Spacesuit _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Fri, 16 Aug 2002 13:43:53 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 13:43:53 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Double posting On Friday 16 August 2002 01:36 pm, Orc In A Spacesuit wrote: > From: "Glotmorf" > > >Dude...I'm getting two copies of each of your messages. You > >double-posting? > > > >=09=09=09=09=09=09Glotmorf > > Sorry about that; I was mailing to both bnomic-private and to everyone > individually, to make sure everyone got the synopsis. Sorry about that= , > I'll quit now. I've only been getting one copy... --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Fri, 16 Aug 2002 13:55:36 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 13:55:36 -0500 From: Orc In A Spacesuit orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Double posting >From: bd >On Friday 16 August 2002 01:36 pm, Orc In A Spacesuit wrote: > > From: "Glotmorf" > > > > >Dude...I'm getting two copies of each of your messages. You > > >double-posting? > > > > > > Glotmorf > > > > Sorry about that; I was mailing to both bnomic-private and to everyone > > individually, to make sure everyone got the synopsis. Sorry about that, > > I'll quit now. > >I've only been getting one copy... > >-- >bd >The above == my from field. Duh. > Well, I guess you weren't on the list that copied (I think from one of Glotmorf's emails). He sent out several emails to a lot of whose address he could remember, but couldn't remember yours. At least I think he started it. Anyway, several people pretty much emailed each other trying to figure stuff out; you didn't really miss much. I didn't add you special because I was also mailing to the Bnomic-Private list, which I knew you were on. Oh, and who is the administrator for this list? Orc In A Spacesuit Current Status: Hungry. In need of more sheep. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From glotmorf@earthlink.net Fri, 16 Aug 2002 16:16:49 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 16:16:49 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Double posting On 8/16/02 at 1:55 PM Orc In A Spacesuit wrote: >Oh, and who is the administrator for this list? Wild Card, no? Glotmorf From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Fri, 16 Aug 2002 20:03:20 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 20:03:20 -0500 From: Orc In A Spacesuit orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Double posting >From: "Glotmorf" >On 8/16/02 at 1:55 PM Orc In A Spacesuit wrote: > > >Oh, and who is the administrator for this list? > >Wild Card, no? > > Glotmorf "no?"? Are you not sure? I thought it was bd, but he told me otherwise. Orc In A Spacesuit _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:11:55 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:11:55 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Sealed for freshness I bag all Gnomes I have that are not in my bag. -BvS- _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:25:12 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:25:12 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] I'mevil > >>> I kick bd in the ass. Just because. If there isn't sufficient > >> justification > >>> in the LOGAS to do it, I do it anyway, just without any honor >attached. > >>> > >>> Glotmorf > >>> > >> > >> There are better ways to do this, you know: > >> > >> The American Heritage Dictionary defines 'hoax' as: > >> n. An act intended to deceive or trick > >> > >> By CFI'ing the existance of 1000 rules, bd has attempted to decieve us >into > >> think that the existance of these rules is questionable. > >> > >> Therefore, bd has committed 1000 hoaxes, each of which were done via >email. > >> > >> Therefore, for perpetuating an email hoax 1000 times, I kick bd in the >Ass > >> 1000 times. > >> > >> Have a nice day. > >> > >> -- > >> Wonko > >> > > -[[Although it might be noted that well over half of those 1000 do not, >in > > fact, exist. So you can only kick him once per rule that does exist. > > However, I can get him for all 1000. See, there are 14 other players in >the > > Game, and 1000 CFIs. Each player will have to take more than 70 of >those. > > That's a lot, and making us do that shows intense disrespect for the >rest of > > us. In fact, each and every one of those CFIs is hostile against the >poor > > player who has to Judge it. As such:]] > > > > I kick bd in the Ass 1000 times for "unbridled hostility" [[it's in the > > ruleset. I'm quoting.]] against all "players" [[quoting again]] but >"emself" > > [[Spivak rule]]. > > > > [[Have a nice day, bd.]] > >Oh no, I can kick em for all 1000 - e tried to convince us that we didn't >know whether or not any rule numbered between 0 and 1000 existed. Casting >doubt on, say, rule 1000's failure to exist is also a hoax. > >Wait a minute, there're 1001 CFI's there, not 1000, since it goes from >0-1000. > >I guess I forgot about bd's rule 0 hoax. For perpetuating an email hoax, I >Kick bd in the Ass. > >-- >Wonko > For "unbridled hostility" to the TBA judge of his Rule 0 CFI, I Kick bd in the Ass. [[Thanks, Wonko.]] -BvS- _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:38:31 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:38:31 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Synopsis > > =================================== > > [A bit about who we are, conversation-style] > > > > BvS: To the other longer-running players: Is it just me, or are the > > newbies coming in better at the game and/or sharper at the tongue >lately? > > > > Glotmorf: Some other Nomic game let out recently? College students > > returning to their dorms and accompanying internet access? Or an > > amazing number of lurkers who have been watching us for nweeks on >end...? > > > > Orc: For me, try a college kid at home for the summer stumbles upon the > > game of Nomic, and in 2 days finds B Nomic, that night reads the >ruleset, > > and the next day joins the game. Old and new people, what's your story? > > > > bd: I read about calvinball on c2.com wiki. I read about nomic. I want >to > > nomic.net. I searched alive games. End of story. > >One of my friends returned from vacation, bringing tales of a strange game >similar to some that I knew but much more freeform. I looked it up, and >soon >a face game had started among myself and some associates. Our ruleset, >however, soon became terminally screwed, and I began to look elsewhere for >Nomic to play. I found this game on December 10, 5 days after its creation, >and joined about a week later. -[[I entered during nweek 6, after hearing a couple of friends of mine talking about some Nomic game they were playing online. Having a smidge of experience with the game, I looked around and happened upon B Nomic. Being foolish, I read the ruleset and joined within one evening, and barely managed to do anything useful for three nweeks, during which time I managed to look silly and piss of uin. Ah, good times... then a friend and I came up with a huge "tech tree" of Gnomes. The rest most of you know. Vote yes on the PGGB prop!]]- > > [A summary] > > > > Seems like bd ought to be getting a Mithril Buttplate from all the > > kicking he's getting. Basically, several people kick him, a lot. > > Thousands of times, even. Wonko enjoys it, and BvS points out > > if bd really could be kicked once for every CFI (it's been called > > Unbridled Hostility by some), it would be a very interesting way to > > win (5 points per kick). Of course, this can't happen, because even > > if what he did was kickable, you can only get kicked once per forum > > message. > >But we're not kicking em for eir forum message - we're kicking em for >actions taking therein. E may not be kicked twice for the same action >taken, >but the per forum thing is for issues where the kick is delivered not for >what game action e took, but for what message e sent (for example, if e >were >to send an HTML message). > >I believe I can kick em 1001 times, once per offensive action taken. > >The Baron, however, cannot perform all those kicks, as I already kicked bd >for all those actions. -[[But I'm kicking em for a different reason. I claim e took two actions with each CFI: perpetuating a hoax /and/ being unbridledly hostile. It's like if I sent a chain letter out in HTML. That would be two Kickable actions, wouldn't it?]]- > >I would then like to point out that the buttplates rule does not supercede >the kicking rule; therefore, while bd does gain the attribute 'buttplated', >it does not stop me from gaining well over 1000 points (5005, to be exact), >or from gaining the attribute 'Supreme Kicker of Asses'. -[[And once we're done with Wonko's victory, I win. And get the attribute. It might also be noted (although I'm not sure I'm right) that 1000 kicks in the Ass qualifies as 1000 actions, which means Wonko's Entropy will hit 500, then, post-entropic blowup, mine will. Cue another blowup.]]- > >-- >Wonko > -BvS- _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:39:51 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:39:51 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] I'm evil > > I don't think bd has subscribed to this list yet. > >Oh, really? > >-- >bd >The above == my from field. Duh. -[[Hey, hi, bd! Have those 2003 foot-shaped bruises on your ass cleared up yet?]]- -BvS- _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:43:25 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:43:25 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Synopsis > >> ==================================== > >> [A summary] > >> > >> Seems like bd ought to be getting a Mithril Buttplate from all the > >> kicking he's getting. Basically, several people kick him, a lot. > >> Thousands of times, even. Wonko enjoys it, and BvS points out > >> if bd really could be kicked once for every CFI (it's been called > >> Unbridled Hostility by some), it would be a very interesting way to > >> win (5 points per kick). Of course, this can't happen, because even > >> if what he did was kickable, you can only get kicked once per forum > >> message. > > > >But we're not kicking em for eir forum message - we're kicking em for > >actions taking therein. E may not be kicked twice for the same action > >taken, > >but the per forum thing is for issues where the kick is delivered not for > >what game action e took, but for what message e sent (for example, if e > >were > >to send an HTML message). > > > >I believe I can kick em 1001 times, once per offensive action taken. > > > >The Baron, however, cannot perform all those kicks, as I already kicked >bd > >for all those actions. > > > >I would then like to point out that the buttplates rule does not >supercede > >the kicking rule; therefore, while bd does gain the attribute >'buttplated', > >it does not stop me from gaining well over 1000 points (5005, to be >exact), > >or from gaining the attribute 'Supreme Kicker of Asses'. > >From Rule 260: "Multiple Kicks in the Ass may not be given in response to a >single Action or Forum message." > >Guess we need a ruling on whether that's an inclusive "or" or an exclusive >"or". > >Aside from that, we might have a problem kicking bd once per action taken, >since any single one of those 1001 actions (Scheherazade Nomic?) isn't all >that offensive...just stupid. It's the amassing of them that's offensive. >For example, if I take my portion of them (70-some, wasn't it?), I could >regard it as a shitload of judgment work I'd probably be stuck with, a >massive insult to my intelligence, a waste of perfectly good email archive >space, etc. But any one of those 70-some wouldn't be that much work to >judge, might be funny in a retro-uin sorta thang, wouldn't consume that >much space, and so on... > >Aha! Now I see it. "Action" was redefined in the context of Rule 260: >"Whenever a player performs an action that is on the List of Generally >Abhorred Stuff in a public forum, any player may respond in a public forum >to the forum message containing that action, indicating that e is giving >that player a Kick in the Ass, and the reason why." So even though that >message contained 1001 game actions, the collective mass of them produce a >single kick-in-the-ass action. And since Unbridled Hostility against the >collective body of players is sort of part of the game, I'd say this body >of game actions resulted in one kick-in-the-ass action of Unbridled >Hostility (insulted intelligence, spammage, etc) against each player >individually. So whoever feels offended by bd's game-action collection >gets eir own kick. One kick apiece. > >That's still, what, 14 kicks? Works for me. > > Glotmorf > -[[Pardon me while I grin massively. Even if there won't be two wins and/or blowups, I've still kicked bd for everyone else. That's what, 70 points? Cool, I'm not in last place any more.]]- -BvS- _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:04:10 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:04:10 -0500 From: Orc In A Spacesuit orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] One more on automation At this time, I have done enough on my own with semi-automation that I only need one thing: A single web page with a few drop-down boxes, a couple text boxes, and a command button. When a certain one of the drop-down boxes changes, the list items in the others change, based on a database query. When the command button is clicked, all the contents of everything are sent to the computer with the database. That's all I need; I can do all the automation scripts myself. The scripts don't need to be online, as only the Admin can give the OK to run them. I have provided a graphic example of what I need at: http://comp.uark.edu/~jas29/nomic/make_me_this.jpg If you go to that, minus the filename, you will find lots of stuff, including failed attempts at the page described above. Anything with the name uber-prop_... is about that; everything else relates to the automation. If anyone can make the page, please do it. It doesn't matter how the contents are sent back when the command button is clicked; for all I care it could send an email with the binary values of everything. It doesn't matter. Just as long as it gets to the admin's comp, everything's peachy. Orc In A Spacesuit Current Status: Standing behind bd and setting his OrcishSpacesuit AutoMotor Controls to Auto-Kick. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From glotmorf@earthlink.net Fri, 16 Aug 2002 22:09:53 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 22:09:53 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Synopsis On 8/16/02 at 9:43 PM Baron von Skippy wrote: >-[[Pardon me while I grin massively. Even if there won't be two wins >and/or >blowups, I've still kicked bd for everyone else. That's what, 70 points? >Cool, I'm not in last place any more.]]- You didn't kick em for me. I was the first kicker. Thank you for your= concern. Glotmorf From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:00:28 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:00:28 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Synopsis Quoth Glotmorf, > On 8/16/02 at 9:43 PM Baron von Skippy wrote: > >> -[[Pardon me while I grin massively. Even if there won't be two wins >> and/or >> blowups, I've still kicked bd for everyone else. That's what, 70 points? >> Cool, I'm not in last place any more.]]- > > You didn't kick em for me. I was the first kicker. Thank you for your > concern. > You kicked on Spoon-Discuss. Orc was the first. -- Wonko From glotmorf@earthlink.net Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:13:45 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:13:45 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Synopsis On 8/16/02 at 11:00 PM Wonko wrote: >Quoth Glotmorf, > >> On 8/16/02 at 9:43 PM Baron von Skippy wrote: >> >>> -[[Pardon me while I grin massively. Even if there won't be two wins >>> and/or >>> blowups, I've still kicked bd for everyone else. That's what, 70= points? >>> Cool, I'm not in last place any more.]]- >> >> You didn't kick em for me. I was the first kicker. Thank you for your >> concern. >> > >You kicked on Spoon-Discuss. > >Orc was the first. Fine. I therefore kick bd in the ass now, in response to the act of= "Unbridled Hostility" of unjustly filling our mailboxes with quantities of= text that should never have been made in the first place. I nobly deliver= a kick to bd's ass for every player in the game (save bd) in response to= the act that had been delivered to each of em. So I'm still a kicker. :) Glotmorf From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:35:38 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:35:38 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Re: [spoon-discuss] Too quiet, bd? Okay, this is based on the draft you sent out. A lot of the spelling and grammar points I mention have probably already been fixed, but just in case= , they're all here. I'm certain that not all of the things I object to are fixed in the currently posted version. > Well, here goes, and remember, you have bd to blame for sending this > incomplete mess to you... I'd kick em again, but I'm tired of kicking the same person over an over again... Somebody else do something stupid ;) > I make the following proposal, which aims to clear ambiguities, fix > loopholes, and standardize the whole grid/object/entity/buy thing. It is= a > fixed up rule followed by a repeal/revise list of other rules so that the= y > conform to this, and eliminate redundancy. I do this to clear things up = and > make way for more Goodieness=99. > {{ > I propose the following rules: > {{__Objects__ > Preamble: The following words are capitalized in this Rule to show that > they have special meaning. In all references outside this Rule, these wo= rds > need not be capitalized. These words are: Rule, Object, Property, Value, > Type, items in quotes, and the plural versions of those. Any reference t= o > one of those words between '<' and '>' indicate that one of the word betw= een > the <> should be subsituted. This Rule and all parts of it defers to all > Rules or parts of Rules that do not say they defer to this Rule, unless > otherwise specified. IF a rule supercedes this rule, all parts not Otherwise specified by this rule, you mean? > specifcally superceded or contradicted are still in effect. specifcally -> specifically > A. Definition > In this game, there are Objects. All Objects have Properties. Propertie= s > have Values. An Object may only have a Property defined in a Rule, and > Property may only have a Value defined in a Rule. Also, Objects, Propert= ies > of Objects and Values of Properties may not be modified, removed, added o= r > redefined except as stated in a Rule. No Values may be over 255 characte= rs > in length. In the case of a Value being a deliniated list, each item in = the > list may not be over 255 characters, and the list as a whole is unlimited= . > If a list contains 2 or ore identical values, then all but the first of ore -> more > those values is removed, unless specified otherwise. If a Property has a > default value, then that default Value if assigned to that Value upon > creation of that object, unless specifed otherwise. If there is no defau= lt > Value and no other Value is specified, then the Property shall be empty i= f > it is a string or list (contain no characters or Values), and be 0 if it = is > a number. If those Values are not valid, and not default or other starti= ng not -> no > Values are specified, the Action creating the Object fails. All lists in > this Rule are semicolon-deliniated. A "P-Integer" is an Integer that may > not be lower than 0. "Real" means "Real Number" when it is stated as a > Value Type. If an Action would result in any Value being an invalid Valu= e, > that entire Action does not happen. >=20 > A.1. > Objects have the Property "Name", which is a string consisting of > alphanumeric, whitespace, and non-semicolon, non-parentheses punctuation. > Each object shall be referred to as either "", "The " or "The > (Description to differentiate this Object from others with the sam= e > Name)", or by "". All Objects are given a name upon creation. > All Independent Entities choose their own Name upon creation; all other > Objects are given their Name by definition. No Name can be equal to any > Property or Value, except as specified by a Rule [[No superceding necessa= ry, > a Rule just has to specify otherwise]]. >=20 > Names are used for identification. Any similarity between the string of > characters that constitute the name of an Object and a string of characte= rs > in the text of a Proposal, Rule, or Judgment shall have no impact on the > implementation of that Proposal, Rule, or Judgment, unless the language o= f > the Proposal, Rule, or Judgment specifically indicates the string of > characters is referring to an Object of that name. [[For example, "the > player JohnDoe" or "the player named JohnDoe."]] >=20 > A.2. > Objects may have the Property "Nicknames", which is a semicolon-delimited > list of strings consisting of alphanumeric, whitespace, and non-semicolon= , > non-parentheses punctuation characters, unless stated elsewhere that they > may not. All Nicknames must be unique among all possible Values for all > possible Properties of all Possible Objects, as stated by the Rules. A > Nickname is added by any Independent Entity stating that e desires a > Nickname for an Object [[emslef, player other than emself, a Gremlin...]]= , > and if in 7 ndays there are no objections by any Independent Entity, that > Nickname is added to that Object's Nicknames, if it is legal according to > the rest of this rule. Nicknames may also be added by definition of an > Object, in which place they are added immidiately. Nicknames may be used= in immidiately -> immediately > any text in the game in lieu of that Object's Name, except when stating t= he > Value of that Object's Name Property. >=20 > A.3. > All Objects have the property "Types". Types is a > comma-or-semicolon-deliniated list of alphanumeric Values. An Object is > said to be a/an if it has in it's Types. For example, an= d > Object with a Type Value of "Entity, Player" is "An Entity" and "A Player= ". > [[Don't worry, it is pretty simple once you see the difference.]] >=20 > A.3.1 > [[This describes The Grid as of this writing, but can extend to other > objects (more Grids, Tower of Babel...)]] > "Physical Region" is a Type Value. Any Object with this Type may contain > Locations[[A location is an Object with a Type of Location, as defined in > the next section]]. In the definition of a Physical Region, there should > also be a definition of the Locations it (can) hold(s), and define how th= ose > Locations act. Anything in such a definition supercedes anything it > contradicts in this Rule. >=20 > A.3.2 > "Location" is a Type Value. A Location may contain Physical Objects [[B= y > the referring convention in A.3,, this means any Object with the Type Val= ue > of "Physical Object"]]. A location may only contain Objects as defined b= y > its definition and other Rules. Any amount of Locations may be "Declared > One", in which case all such Locations declared together are considered t= o > be one region for all intents and purposes of the rules, and all objects = in > one of these Locations are in both. The previous sentence supercedes all > other rules that do not specifically supercede it. [[This is so that the > Location "Bottom Floor of Babel" is considered the same as "Grid Location > (x,y)".]] All Locations have the Properties "Substance" and "Previous > Substance", which is a string. Whenvever a Location "Gains a Substance", > its Previous Substance becomes its Substance, and then its Substance beco= mes > the Gained Substance. Whenvever a Location "Loses a Substance", if its > Substance is Equal to the Lost Substance, then its Substance and Previous > Substance switch values. [[Note that this switching could cause some fun= ny > things if multiple things tried to *temporarily* change a Location's > Substance and change.]] Locations also have the Property Engraving, whic= h > is a String. >=20 > A.3.3 > "Physical Object" is a Type Value. Physical Objects have the Property > "Physical Description" Physical Description is a > comma-or-semicolon-deliniated list of alphanumeric Values. A Physical > Description Value may be used as an adjective in decribing a Physical Obj= ect > that has that Value. Physical Objects also have the Property "Area", whi= ch > contains the Name of all Location(s) the Object is in, seperated by > semicolons. A Physical Object can only be in one Location at a time, unl= ess > those Locations are Declared One as a result of a Rule. If a physical object can be in only one location, that means that if DimSpace is defined to be a Physical Region, players could not occupy both = a DimSpace location and a GridSpace Location. That's bad. > "Mobile" is a Physical Description Value. If an Object is Mobile, then i= t > may take the Move Action [[It may move]]. Under the current ruleset, at least, these also need to be able to be the target of an action which moves them (moves them from one square to a consecutive one, that is) due to things such as PinBall Guns. > "Can Carry" is a Physical Description Value. If an Object Can Carry, the= n > it may take the Pick Up Action on any Object that is Carryable, and may t= ake > the Put Down action on Object it is Carrying. Any Object that Can Carry > also has the Property "Objects Carried", which contains a > semicolon-deliniated list of all Objects carried by by that Object. If 2= or > more Values in this list are identical, and the Objects referred to by th= ose > names are identical, then those entries shall be combined into one entry, > which be the orginal entry plus " (x)", where x is the number of entries > combined. For all applications, this new entry shall be treated as x > entries, of the part without the " (x) including for comparison to other > entries for combination, but these pseudoentries shall not be considered > against one another[[to prevent an infinite loop of combination]]. Any t= ime > any of the objects referred to by this combined entry are no longer carri= ed, > x shall be reduced by the number of object no longer carried. This means that if I carry two Earth Gnomes, then rather than "Earth Gnome; Earth Gnome" it'll be "Earth Gnome (2)", right? BTW, pluralize the last occurrence of 'objects'. > "Carryable" is a Physical Description Value. If an Object is Carryable, > then it may be the target of a Pick Up Action. > "Throwable" is a Physical Description Value. If an Object is Throwable, > then it may be Thrown [[The Throw Action may be taken with it]] by any > Object that posesses it. >=20 > "Impassable" is a Physical Description Value. If an Object is Impassable= , > then another Physical Object may not take an Action that causes it to ent= er > the Location the Passable Object is in, unless a rule specifies otherwis= e > [[All a rule has to do is "*specify* that the Action may be taken". It d= oes > not have to state it supercedes this rule]]. If any Object enters a > Location containing an an Impassable Object (An Object that does not have > the Physical Description Value Passable), then the entering Object is Thr= own > Elbonia-Style at the Location it enters, unless specified otherwise in a > Rule. I think you mean 'impassable' on the third line there... > "Football Player" is a Physical Type Value. Only Mobile Independent > Entities that Can Carry that are not already Football Players may become > Football Players [[If someone gets turned into a Frog, they can still pla= y > if they already are, but can't join if they aren't playing already]]. Al= l > Football Players have the addtional Property "Team", which is a string th= at > equals either "Crimson" or "Turqouise". Any Object meeting the > qualifications to be a Football Player perfom the Join Football Team Acti= on. > [[Football is described elsewhere.]] >=20 > "Quake Player" is a Physical Type Value. Only Mobile Independent Entitie= s > that Can Carry that are not already Quake Players may become Quake Player= s. > [[Quake will be/is described elsewhere. Until it is, Quake Player is > meaningless.]] I've been trying for a long time to come up with something to do with Quake= . Any ideas? Nevermind, I've just had a few... Has anyone here ever played 'Worms'? If you have, think about what might come of mixing a Sheep Gnome with a Bom= b Gnome... > A.3.4 > "Entity" is a Type Value. All Entities have the Property "Dependance", > which can be either "Independent" or "Dependent". Entities with the > Depenance Value of Independent are "Independent Entities"; all Entities w= ith > the Depenance Value of Dependent are "Dependent Entities". No action may= , > as a result, cause anything to happen or not happen as result of a Depend= ent > Entity performing an Action that it has not been granted the ability to > take, or has no way to decide to take that Action. [[Since Gremlims canno= t > take the Action 'Post a message declining a society invitation in a publi= c > forum', the Action 'Invite Robin to the society House Grem' cannot be tak= en. > This should be covered in other rules, however, and is meant to catch > accidents when an Entity forgets to be specific.]] All Objects may be > affected by Events, but may not initiate an Action unless they are Entiti= es. >=20 > A.3.5 > "Administrator" is a Type Value. [[Administrator powers are described > elsewhere.]] >=20 > A.3.6 > "Player" is a Type Value. [[Players are described elsewhere.]] >=20 >=20 >=20 > A.4 All Objects have the Property "Status". Status is a list of > alphanumeric Status Values. [[Status effects are described elsewhere.]] >=20 >=20 > }} > Create following Rule: > {{__Players__ > A. Creation and Properties > Upon creation, all Players are also Mobile Physical Objects that Can Carr= y, > and Independent Entities, and have the following Properties, set to the > follwing inital values: > Property Type Initial Value > Score P-Integer 0 > Wins P-Integer 0 > BNS P-Integer 500 > Charm Integer 1 > Activity Integer 1 > Respect Integer 0 > Style Integer 0 > Style Attributes String List > Entropy Real 0 > BAC Integer 0 > Mischiviousness Integer 0 > Titles String List Newbie > Nobility Integer 1 > Diety String Nobility is still listed as a Dimension. > B. Effects of Player Properties and Rule Governing Them Rule -> Rules > B.1. > Any Entity may give any Entity that has a Score any amount of ier Score, > unless the receiving Entity has refused such a a giving. ier -> eir; a a -> a > B.2. > If a Player is "Awarded a Win", the following occur: > The Rule {{ __No Win For You__ {* Win, 9 *} > Wins may not be awarded. This rule supercedes all other rules.}} is > created.[[No vote necessary]]. > Score, BNS, Charm, Activity, Style, Entropy, BAC, and Mischiviousness are > all set to their initial values for all Objects that have these Propertie= s, > as though these Objects had just been created. > The player who was awarded the Win receives one point of Respect and one > point of Wins. > The effects listed in Rule 440 occur, as though Universal Entropy had > exceeded Maximum Entropy. > The Clock is turned Off until the Watch reads three wdays [[so we can hav= e a > bit of a breather]] > If possible, play continues normally. Take out the ClockStop. Please! > B.3. > An Entity's Charm increases by one whenever a proposal e has proposed > passes. An Entity's Charm decreases by one whenever a proposal e has > proposed fails. [[Note Entity; this is so that if other Entity get the > Respect Property, they are affected by this too.]] >=20 > B.4. > A Player's Activity increases by one at the end of an nweek if e voted on > that nweek's Ballot; otherwise, unless the Player is on voluntary Leave, = eir > Activity decreases by one. >=20 > B.5. > If a Player's Respect exceeds all other Players' Respect by at least 5, t= hat > Player gains the title "Respected One". If at any time, the Respect of a > player who has the title "Respected One" fails to meet the aforementioned > condition, that player loses the title "Respected One". >=20 > B.6. > Once per nweek, a Player may spend eir Style Points to acquire Style > Attributes from the Administrator. The Administrator may give any Player > any Style Attributes so purchased. The Administrator may refuse to sell = any > Style Attributes e feels would disrupt the game, confuse any Entity, or > modify any Object, Property, or Value other than the purchasing Player's > Style and Style Attributes. All Style Attributes are listed after the > owning Player's Name on all offical rosters. Style Attributes must be > unique among all Objects, Properties, Values, and all such of the precedi= ng > that would be defined if any combination of current proposals passed, > including the Style Attrbibutes of other Players. Players may not use St= yle > to purchase attributes that alter or misrepresent the game state, or are = in > uniquely identifying use in the rule set. [[e.g. one can't purchase "has > 1200 points" as an attribute, since it misrepresents the game state.]] > Style Attributes are for vanity purposes only. >=20 > B.7. Entropy > At the end of each nweek, each player's Entropy shall increase by an amou= nt > equal to the sum of the number of proposals e had on the ballot for that > nweek which passed and 1/2 the number of game actions (movements, purchas= es, > throws, etc.)taken during that nweek. This includes any Actions which > otherwise have no effect on any Object, Property, or Value [[Such as "Orc= In > a Spacesuit plays in the mud at ier position]]. [[See Game State for more= on > Entropy]]. >=20 > B.8. BAC > BAC may also be referred to as Blood Alcohol Content. > Whenever a player drinks an alcoholic beverage, eir BAC increases by 1. A= t > the end of each nweek, the BAC of each player with a positive BAC decreas= es > by 1. If a player's BAC is greater than 5, e has the Status Inebriated. > If, at the end of a voting period, a Player is Inebriated, e casts a rand= om > vote on (the player's BAC - 5) random ballot items, up to the amount of > ballot items on that week's ballot. Said votes use up allowed votes of th= at > Player on those items, and cannot be overriden. >=20 > B.9. Mischiviousness > An Entity's Mischievousness increases by 1 whenever any of the following > events happen: > That Entity buys a Big Rock > A Big Rock bought by that Entity Garths a Brook > That Entity throws any Object > An Object thrown by that Entity is targeted at another Entity [[Not playe= r > here, to allow proper results for vandalism :)]] > Any other Entity loses points as a direct result of that Entity throwing = an > Object > That Entity goes on Forced Leave > That Entity Gives a player a Kick in the Ass >=20 > An Entity's Mischievousness decreases by 3 whenever they perform one of t= he > following actions: > That Entity becomes a Minister > That Entity becomes the target of a Declaration of Respect > That Entity Mentors a Newbie (Players only). >=20 > B.10. Titles > A Title may "Awarded by Condition" or "Awarded by Event". If a Title is add a 'be' --^-- > Awarded by Condition, then as long as any Player meets all the Conditions > specified, then that Player has that Title, and loses that Title immidiat= ely immidiately -> immediately > upon not meeting those conditions. If a Title is Awarded by Event, then > Players gain that Title whenever the Rules state they do, and keep them > until another Event causes them to lose it. [[The previous statement is > redundant, but is included for extra clarity]]. >=20 > B.11. Nobility > Each Player's Nobility is always equal to the number of Titles e has. I see. > B.12. Diety > Diety is the Name of the Diety that that Entity follows. An Entity may > become a follower of a Diety as stated in the rules, or when conditions > stated by a Player with the Title "Priest(ess) of X", where X is the Diet= y's > Name, are met. Any Entity must choose to follow a Diety, in addition to = any > other conditions or rules, by stating eir desire to do so in a public for= um, > retraction between the statement and when e becomes a follwer. Any Entit= y > may cease to follow a Diety by stating e does so in a public forum, or by > follwing another Diety. No Entity may follow more than one Diety at a ti= me. A divine being is a "deity". Diety means 'resembling a diet'. > {{__Game State__ > The Object Game State exists, with the following Properties: Name, Types, > Status, nday, nweek, nyear, wday, wweek, wyear, Universal Entropy, Maximu= m > Entropy. So thing such as the existance of players and other objects are not part of the GameState? > All Properties, other than Name, Types and Status, are unique among all > Properties of all Objects. Each of these unique Properties may be referr= ed > to as just "", in lieu of "The Game State's ". >=20 > Maximum Entropy is initially 500. >=20 > Universal Entropy is always equal to the sum of all Players' Entropy valu= es > plus the Entropy of all Ancient Monoliths. If Universal Entropy is ever > greater than Maximum Entropy, the Clock will be turned off until the Watc= h > reads 3 wdays, and the following actions will occur in order immediately: >=20 > * All Players and Ancient Monoliths are placed into Limbo. [[Ancient > Monoliths too, so that the later Fire doesn't make everything go nuts]]. > * All sirens, big rocks, big sticks, shields, balls of wax are destroyed. > * All Gnomes not in Gnome bags are destroyed. > * The Weather is updated > * The Yeti is moved to a random square on the grid. > * All Gremlins go into Hiding. > * The Football is moved to a random square as if a touchdown had been > scored. > * In Rule 394, section A.2, the numbers 1 and 20 are switched. [[swap > endzones!]] > * All Insta-Rules are destroyed. > * Four Insta-Rules are enacted: > {It is illegal to enter or remain in (10,10) without bouncing Elbonia-sty= le} > {It is illegal to enter or remain in (10,11) without bouncing Elbonia-sty= le} > {It is illegal to enter or remain in (11,11) without bouncing Elbonia-sty= le} > {It is illegal to enter or remain in (11,10) without bouncing Elbonia-sty= le} > * All Locations contained in The Grid gain the substance Fire. > * All players receive 10 points. > * All players' Entropy values are set to 0. >=20 > At the end of the nweek in which the above occurs, all The Grid locations= , > 5 random squares become Mud, the Big Stick is placed on a random square, = and > all Ancient Monoliths are placed in random empty locations on The Grid. >=20 > If a player's Entropy exceeds ((Maximum Entropy) / (# of players)) / 2 , = all > eir messages posted to the public forum must consist of words of three or > fewer syllables. If a player's Entropy exceeds (((Maximum Entropy) / (# o= f > players)) / 4) * 3 , all eir messages posted to the public forum must > consist of words of two or fewer syllables. If a player's Entropy exceeds > ((Maximum Entropy) / (# of players)), all eir messages posted to the publ= ic > forum must consist of words of one syllable. Comprehensible abbreviations > and acronyms defined in the game rules are acceptable in order to comply > with this. Also exempt are: numbers, typing symbols, quotes from current > rules or other public forum msgs. (though not one's own msgs.), and > comments. Any posts breaking this Rule are nnt considered posts for the > purpose of any Rule [[meaning that any actions/proposals made are ignored= ]]. nnt -> not Be sure to remove that last paragraph if I successfully repeal the current one. > {{__Actions__ > Preamble: This rule defers to all other rules except __Objects__, except > when specified otherwise. >=20 > A. Definition > Entities may take Actions permitted them in the Rules. No non-Entity Obj= ect > may take Actions. Actions are not Objects. >=20 > A.1. Effects of all Actions > Whenever an Entity takes a non-proposal Action, if it has the Property > Entropy, it's Entropy shall increase by .5. If this equal increase is > stated elsewhere in the rules, and is not stated to be a different increa= se, > then both increases shall be considered one, and eir Entropy shall increa= se > only by for both increases. This section defers to all other rules and > sections of rules, except as specified otherwise. only by for both increases? Not sure what you want to say there... > B. Restriction > Any Action defined or referenced in any rule is a Restricted Action. > Restricted Actions may only be taken when specifically permitted by the > Rules. Any Action which is not Restricted is Unrestricted. Unrestricted > Actions may be taken by any Entity at any time. Unrestricted Actions do = not > change any Object, Property, or Value, including Rules and Proposals, and= do > not affect the game in any way, except as follows: > Unrestricted Actions cause the normal change in Entropy, if applicable. What is considered to be an Unrestricted Action? You've never actually defined Action - does my raising my hand count as an 'Action'? How about if I pick my nose, or take my yearly bath? > Unrestricted Actions are part of posts in Public Forums, and may cause > events related to posts, but not the actual content of the Unrestricted > Action Ah, so it has to be in a post. Still, does, for example, the post itself count as an Action? > Unrestricted Actions may be processed by and may affect the judgement of > Independent Entities. Note that this processing and affection of judgeme= nt > are completly beyond the control of the Action (ie, an Unrestricted Actio= ns > can't say "Wonko decides to vote 'no' on all ballots this week" and make = it > so; however, as a result of processing an Action, may decide so of ier ow= n > free will). completly -> completely; ier -> eir; You've used 'this' in front of something you later used 'are' for (processing and affection of judgement) = - is it singular or plural? Judgement is actually spelt Judgment > C. Performance of Actions > An Action is attempted by either a Rule saying an Entity does it, or by a= n > Entity stating that e does it in a Public Forum. Actions may only be tak= en > while The Clock is On. So, for example, the admin could not end a Road Trip while the Clock was Off, because that would be an action? > If any Action cannot be completed in part, then the entire Action fails, = and > does not happen. The only Event that happens is that the Acting Entity > tried to perform the Action; The Action does not happen. Valid Targets m= ust > be specifiedIf there is no valid Targets for an action (if that action ha= s > targets), then the Action fails. specifiedIf -> specified; If > D. List of Restricted Actions > The following Actions are Restricted. Parentheses seperate parts of a > senctence in this section, and are used for clarity. Other Restricted > Actions may be defined elsewhere. If any Action listed in this Rule is > defined in another Rule, this definition supercedes the other, unless suc= h > definition's intent is to define additional effects or qualifications of = the > Action, in which case the Effects defined at both are true, unless such > truth would directly result in a paradox or is impossible, in which the > definition not listed here is entirely null and void. This section up to > this point takes precedence over all other Rules and parts of them, excep= t > when specified otherwise. Notes are addtional Rules. Wording is an > alternate way to state an action, and may be adjusted for proper grammar. > In Wording, '<>' are used to deliniate either Values or plain English tex= t, > and may include names and pronouns >=20 > Action: Move > Reference to Acting Entity: Moving Entity > Qualifications: Any Physical Mobile Entity > Target A: An Adjacent Location that (does not have an Immovable Object in= it > AND (if the Moving Object is a Player, does not have a Player in it)). > Effects: The Moving Entity's Location changes to Target A. > Wording: Move(s) to . You mean (does not have an Impassable Object in it). You do that later, too= . Also, what about the 'no climbing' rule - you can't move to a square whose depth is less than yours by more than 4 units. > Action: Jump > Reference to Acting Entity: Jumping Entity > Qualifications: No Entities at this time. [[Must be a Physical Entity]] > Target A: A Location Adjacent to (a Location Adjacent to (the current > Location of the Jumping Entity)) that (does not have an Immovable Object = in > it AND (if the Moving Object is a Player, does not have a Player in it)). > Effects: The Moving Entity's Location changes to Target A. > Wording: Jumps to . How does this differ from Move? > Action: Throw > Reference to Acting Entity: Throwing Entity > Qualifications: Any Physical Entity that Can Carry and is in a Region > Target A: A Throwable Object in the Possession of the Throwing Entity > Target B: Any Location in the same Region as the Throwing Entity [[So no > throwing in Limbo, as it is in no Region]]. May not be the Location of t= he > Throwing Entity. > Effects: Target A's Location becomes empty (is in no Location, and ceases= to > be in the possesion of the Throwing Entity). Target A gains the Status > "Airborne" for 2 ndays. At the end of the two ndays, the following occur= s: > *If Target B contains an Impassable object, Target A is placed in a rando= m > one of (the closest (locations (that match the conditons to be a Target = B > that do not contain any Impassable Objects) in the same Region as Target = B) > to Target B). If no such Location exists, then Target A is moved to Targ= et > B, and The Gods of Incomplete Virtual Physics take the Crash Action on > Target A. > *If Target B contains a Player, and that Player has declared e will take = the > Catch Action on Target A, then that Player Catches Target A. [[Note that > failure of this rule-dictated Catch means that the catch had never > happened.]] > *If Target B contains a Player, and that Player has declared e will take = the > Dodge Matrix Style Action on Target A, then Target B is changed to a rand= om > element of (Target B and Locations adjacent to Target B), and all the > actions stated here are re-evaluated with the new Target B. *If there ar= e > no such valid Locations, or if any Throw Action results in any Location > being Target B twice, then instead any other actions stated here, Target = A > is immidiately moved to Target B. > *If Target B contains a player, and that does not Catch or Dodge Matrix > Style Target A, (through non-declaration or failure), then e is hit by th= e > object, losing 1d4 points to the player who threw the object, if one exis= ts, > or to the Gremlin Fund, if not. > *If the square does not contain a player or an impassable object, the obj= ect > moves to the square. > Notes: In lieu of stating a Location for Target B, the Throwing Entity ma= y > state a Player in a Location that is a valid Target B; in that case, the > Target B for this Action becomes the Location of the stated Player [[note > that this can't be the Throwing Entity, as e is in an invalid Location B]= ]. > Wording: Throws {at|to} . Matrix Dodging is all-new, isn't it? > Action: Launch > Reference to Acting Entity: Launching Entity > Qualifications: Any Physical Entity that Can Carry and is in a Region > Target A: A Throwable Object in the Possession of the Throwing Entity > Effects: Target A's Location becomes empty (is in no Location, and ceases= to > be in the possesion of the Throwing Entity). Target A gains the Status > "Airborne" for 3 ndays. When Target A is no longer Airborne, the effect > listed under "Throw" in this rule occur, as if Target A in this Action wa= s > the Target A in that Action, and had been Thrown 2 ndays ago, with Target= B > any Location in the same Region as the Launching Entity was when e perfor= med > this Launch. > Wording: Launches . So, same as Throw, but 1 nday longer? Why not just allow Throwing things to specify a time? > Action: Give > Reference to Acting Entity: Giving Entity > Qualifications: Any Entity > Target A: Any amount of Property(ies) that contains (a) Value(s) that may= be > given to another Entity, as stated by the Rules, that the Giving Entity h= as. > If it is a numerical Value, then the minimum that may be given is 0, and > the maximum is equal to that Value. > Target B: Any Entity that has the Property(ies) in Target A, can accept a= ll > of Target A, and has not refused this Action. May not be the Giving Enti= ty. > Also known as the Receiving Entity. > Effects. All of Target A are transferred to Target B. > Wording: Launches . >=20 > Action: Refuse > Reference to Acting Entity: Refusing Entity > Qualifications: Any Entity > Effect: When Refusing Entity takes this Action, e also specifies conditio= ns > (such a Player giving, amount given, time, whatever). If the Refusing > Entity is the target of a Give Action, and the specified conditions are m= et, > the Give fails. > Wording: Refuses to be given () when > are met. >=20 > Action: Exchange > Reference: Exchanging Entitiy > Qualifications: Any Entity > Target A: Target A of the conditional Give > Target B: Target B of the conditional Give > Effects: Exchange is a conditional Give, which occurs if and only if two > Entities agree to the Exchange and perform the Exchange. Usual condition= s > required to agree include the specifications of the conditional Give the > other Entity must perform. Other conditions may be added, such as the > Target B be a certain Player or hold the Immunity Idol. To state that an > Entity will Sell or Buy something for a Price means that the Entity stati= ng > so is stating that e will perform an Exchange with Target A of ier Give > being the something, and the Give of the other Exchanging Entity must hav= e a > Target A of the Price. When such occurs, one entity, the one saying e wi= ll > Sell, may be referred to the Selling Entity, and the other, the Buying > Entity. If either Give Action does not occur or fails, then both Give > Actions and both Exchange Actions fail completly. > Wording: Exchanges eir for the Target B's Give> of (with ). An entity may also > state "I will sell my for ", or something= to > that extent or equivelence to state a Buy or Sell. > Notes: Any reference to a Buy or Sell action in any rule or proposal exce= pt > this one refers to an Exchange action with the qualities state above, unl= ess > specifically stated otherwise. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > }} > {{__Events__ > Events are things that happen. The following are events: > Any Object is created, modified or destroyed (including rules and proposa= ls) > Any Action is attempted > Any Action is completed > Any Action is failed > }} You'll probably want a closing }} here... Other than that, I like it. Good Job. --=20 Wonko From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:51:17 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:51:17 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Synopsis > >-[[Pardon me while I grin massively. Even if there won't be two wins > >and/or > >blowups, I've still kicked bd for everyone else. That's what, 70 points? > >Cool, I'm not in last place any more.]]- > >You didn't kick em for me. I was the first kicker. Thank you for your >concern. > > Glotmorf > -[[Seeing as you are 280 ahead of me, fighting over 5 is kind of dumb, but then again, I am broke and I have a Gnome habit to maintain. You didn't say for what you were kicking him when you did. And when you assigned a reason, it was Wonko's, for perpetuating an e-mail hoax. So I still get all 14, as you never kicked him for hostility.]]- -BvS- _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:54:03 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:54:03 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Synopsis > >>> -[[Pardon me while I grin massively. Even if there won't be two wins > >>> and/or > >>> blowups, I've still kicked bd for everyone else. That's what, 70 >points? > >>> Cool, I'm not in last place any more.]]- > >> > >> You didn't kick em for me. I was the first kicker. Thank you for your > >> concern. > >> > > > >You kicked on Spoon-Discuss. > > > >Orc was the first. > >Fine. I therefore kick bd in the ass now, in response to the act of >"Unbridled Hostility" of unjustly filling our mailboxes with quantities of >text that should never have been made in the first place. I nobly deliver >a kick to bd's ass for every player in the game (save bd) in response to >the act that had been delivered to each of em. > >So I'm still a kicker. :) > > Glotmorf > -[[Just not an effectual one. He, as... was it Orc? has said, is Buttplated with mithril at this point. If I could use two syllables, I'd deliver a couple of armor-piercing Buttplate Buster Kicks for fun, but I can't, so damn.]]- -BvS- _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Sat, 17 Aug 2002 00:01:37 -0400 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 00:01:37 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Synopsis Quoth Baron von Skippy, >>>>> -[[Pardon me while I grin massively. Even if there won't be two wins >>>>> and/or >>>>> blowups, I've still kicked bd for everyone else. That's what, 70 >> points? >>>>> Cool, I'm not in last place any more.]]- >>>> >>>> You didn't kick em for me. I was the first kicker. Thank you for your >>>> concern. >>>> >>> >>> You kicked on Spoon-Discuss. >>> >>> Orc was the first. >> >> Fine. I therefore kick bd in the ass now, in response to the act of >> "Unbridled Hostility" of unjustly filling our mailboxes with quantities of >> text that should never have been made in the first place. I nobly deliver >> a kick to bd's ass for every player in the game (save bd) in response to >> the act that had been delivered to each of em. >> >> So I'm still a kicker. :) >> >> Glotmorf >> > -[[Just not an effectual one. He, as... was it Orc? has said, is Buttplated > with mithril at this point. If I could use two syllables, I'd deliver a > couple of armor-piercing Buttplate Buster Kicks for fun, but I can't, so > damn.]]- Know what I think about all of this? A) who kicked who doesn't matter, the admin gets to decide which ones e feels like keeping anyway. B) We REALLY need a discussion list. -- Wonko From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Sat, 17 Aug 2002 00:12:26 -0400 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 00:12:26 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Synopsis Quoth Glotmorf, >>> I have database experience in C and Visual Basic, so could contribute to >>> this being set up, but I don't have the java and other stuff down enough >> yet >>> to do it all by myself. >>> >>> If nothing else, this system could provide a more detailed and accurate >> grid >>> and roster, and automate some of the minstries. The reason I bring this >>> idea >>> up is that Dave seems overwhelmed, especially with the 1000 cfi and other >>> foolishness. >> >> I've actually been working on programs that work as you've described - the >> Ministry of the Force website, for example, is actually written by a spiffy >> little interface program I wrote, so all I have to do is post it online. >> I'd >> also been thinking of adapting ForceLord slightly to take on other >> ministries as well (I actually laid out all the plans for a GridLord >> program, but I never wrote it 'cause WC then got the Ministry). But I don't >> know much Java or any other web-oriented language, so I'm not sure if what >> I've written can be useful at all... > > Something that might be useful is externally-connectable databases, like SQL > or ODBC servers, so that coding and database development isn't restricted to a > single server. I'm coding on Joel's server, maintaining my own database and > connecting to Dave's on a read-only basis, but it isn't technically necessary > that this be the case. Not that I fault Joel in any way, but somehow I > suspect he doesn't really want to give a login ID and database to each player > of a single game... Well, I've been meaning to learn SQL... Maybe now would be a good time. >> If we wrote it all as one program, wouldn't it be easiest just to make it >> like some sort of MUD? > > I hear tell there was a Nomic MUD out there. No idea how well it operated. Well, Dave mentioned way back when that one of eir friends had been toying with the idea... Also, though I have yet to find any reasonable records on this, there are references made in a number of places to a MUD-based Nomic Game called Nomic World. It apparantly worked quite well - it was rumored to have upwards of 30 players most of the time. Following its demise, according to eir ruleset, the Agorans founded eir Nomic to replace it. Speaking of which, remember Ed Murphy, and eir Bnomic Reports - I happened across the origins of that - Ed Murphy was, for quite some time, the publisher of the Agoran Weekly Journal. > A MUD (I might suggest MUX, actually) would give us a user environment > independent of the host's operating system, which would probably be a Good > Thing...I'd guess Joel doesn't want that many people to have shell accounts on > nomic.net. But you'd need something that could act as a database (MU*s don't > appear to have effective data search mechanisms), something that permitted > hierarchical access to data (central pool run by Mr. A that peripheral pools > connected to), and access to web and email (can't say I'd want to try to study > the rules through telnet). I don't believe MU*s are up to all this yet. > -- Wonko From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Sat, 17 Aug 2002 00:13:11 -0400 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 00:13:11 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Synopsis > >>>>> -[[Pardon me while I grin massively. Even if there won't be two wins > >>>>> and/or > >>>>> blowups, I've still kicked bd for everyone else. That's what, 70 > >> points? > >>>>> Cool, I'm not in last place any more.]]- > >>>> > >>>> You didn't kick em for me. I was the first kicker. Thank you for >your > >>>> concern. > >>>> > >>> > >>> You kicked on Spoon-Discuss. > >>> > >>> Orc was the first. > >> > >> Fine. I therefore kick bd in the ass now, in response to the act of > >> "Unbridled Hostility" of unjustly filling our mailboxes with quantities >of > >> text that should never have been made in the first place. I nobly >deliver > >> a kick to bd's ass for every player in the game (save bd) in response >to > >> the act that had been delivered to each of em. > >> > >> So I'm still a kicker. :) > >> > >> Glotmorf > >> > > -[[Just not an effectual one. He, as... was it Orc? has said, is >Buttplated > > with mithril at this point. If I could use two syllables, I'd deliver a > > couple of armor-piercing Buttplate Buster Kicks for fun, but I can't, so > > damn.]]- > >Know what I think about all of this? > >A) who kicked who doesn't matter, the admin gets to decide which ones e >feels like keeping anyway. >B) We REALLY need a discussion list. > >-- >Wonko > -[[A) If we want sense here, we'll ask for it. Besides, it isn't like we're doing anything else at the moment. Although we probably have hit the limit of this debate, since we're discussing actions which have already occured and which we cannot change. All we can do is hope Dave agrees with our particular points of view, and being a larger annoyance than 1001 CFIs by discussing kicks ad infinitum/nauseam probably isn't a good way to do that. B) Indeed. Damn brackets...]]- -BvS- _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Sat, 17 Aug 2002 00:37:44 -0400 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 00:37:44 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Force and the Baron Oh, hey, the Baron advanced along the Jedi Path. I must've missed that. It is done. -- Wonko Minister of the Force From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Sat, 17 Aug 2002 01:01:46 -0400 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 01:01:46 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Force and the Baron >Oh, hey, the Baron advanced along the Jedi Path. I must've missed that. It >is done. > >-- >Wonko >Minister of the Force > [[I was wondering what happened to that... now then, QUAKE IN FEAR, MORTALS, FOR I... I... I have no force points, do I? And all evil must be monosyllabic. Well, this aspect of the Game just got a lot less interesting...]] [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Sat, 17 Aug 2002 01:10:22 -0400 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 01:10:22 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Gnome Record- now with 48% MORE brackets! [[Let me see here... ah yes. All gnomes in the Game, except those I have, because I'm special, were taken from their original owners, who were then given one Bomb Gnome for each Gnome thus taken. Now might be a good time to stop with Kick references, as bd has enough Bomb Gnomes to take down a small city, and for some reason, every time I roll this die, it comes up "1." Whoops, I'm reading off of a report for /next/ nweek. Here's the current one:]] No thing has been done with Gnomes. Dull. As is the norm. It does not rain but it pours, I think. [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From glotmorf@earthlink.net Sat, 17 Aug 2002 05:57:43 -0400 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 05:57:43 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Re: [spoon-discuss] Too quiet, bd? On 8/16/02 at 11:35 PM Wonko wrote: >Okay, this is based on the draft you sent out. A lot of the spelling and >grammar points I mention have probably already been fixed, but just in >case, >they're all here. I'm certain that not all of the things I object to are >fixed in the currently posted version. I'm starting to get a weird idea...What if we had a second ruleset that we= could experiment with, such that if we were ever all happy with it we= could swap it in? I mean, OiaB's The Prop sounds like it's big enough= that modifying and maintaining it would be as involved as the main game... >> Well, here goes, and remember, you have bd to blame for sending this >> incomplete mess to you... > >I'd kick em again, but I'm tired of kicking the same person over an over >again... Somebody else do something stupid ;) Some straight lines just can't be bought...:) >> {{ >> I propose the following rules: >> {{__Objects__ >> Preamble: The following words are capitalized in this Rule to show that >> they have special meaning. In all references outside this Rule, these >words >> need not be capitalized. These words are: Rule, Object, Property,= Value, >> Type, items in quotes, and the plural versions of those. Any reference "items in quotes" are capitalized in this rule but don't need to be= otherwise? What if I, by Eddie, WANT to capitalize something in quotes?= :) >to >> one of those words between '<' and '>' indicate that one of the word >between >> the <> should be subsituted. This Rule and all parts of it defers to= all >> Rules or parts of Rules that do not say they defer to this Rule, unless >> otherwise specified. IF a rule supercedes this rule, all parts not >Otherwise specified by this rule, you mean? >> specifcally superceded or contradicted are still in effect. Why not make this a general case -- work it into the precedence rule? >> A. Definition >> In this game, there are Objects. All Objects have Properties. >Properties >> have Values. An Object may only have a Property defined in a Rule, and >> Property may only have a Value defined in a Rule. Also, Objects, >Properties >> of Objects and Values of Properties may not be modified, removed, added >or >> redefined except as stated in a Rule. No Values may be over 255 >characters >> in length. In the case of a Value being a deliniated list, each item in >the >> list may not be over 255 characters, and the list as a whole is >unlimited . >> If a list contains 2 or ore identical values, then all but the first of >ore -> more >> those values is removed, unless specified otherwise. If a Property has= a >> default value, then that default Value if assigned to that Value upon >> creation of that object, unless specifed otherwise. If there is no >default >> Value and no other Value is specified, then the Property shall be empty >if >> it is a string or list (contain no characters or Values), and be 0 if it >is >> a number. If those Values are not valid, and not default or other >starting >not -> no >> Values are specified, the Action creating the Object fails. All lists= in >> this Rule are semicolon-deliniated. A "P-Integer" is an Integer that= may >> not be lower than 0. "Real" means "Real Number" when it is stated as a >> Value Type. If an Action would result in any Value being an invalid >Value, >> that entire Action does not happen. >> >> A.1. >> Objects have the Property "Name", which is a string consisting of >> alphanumeric, whitespace, and non-semicolon, non-parentheses= punctuation. >> Each object shall be referred to as either "", "The " or= "The >> (Description to differentiate this Object from others with the >same >> Name)", or by "". All Objects are given a name upon creation. >> All Independent Entities choose their own Name upon creation; all other >> Objects are given their Name by definition. No Name can be equal to any >> Property or Value, except as specified by a Rule [[No superceding >necessary, >> a Rule just has to specify otherwise]]. >> >> Names are used for identification. Any similarity between the string of >> characters that constitute the name of an Object and a string of >characters >> in the text of a Proposal, Rule, or Judgment shall have no impact on the >> implementation of that Proposal, Rule, or Judgment, unless the language >of >> the Proposal, Rule, or Judgment specifically indicates the string of >> characters is referring to an Object of that name. [[For example, "the >> player JohnDoe" or "the player named JohnDoe."]] ...In which case, the impact is what? >> B.2. >> If a Player is "Awarded a Win", the following occur: >> The Rule {{ __No Win For You__ {* Win, 9 *} >> Wins may not be awarded. This rule supercedes all other rules.}} is >> created.[[No vote necessary]]. >> Score, BNS, Charm, Activity, Style, Entropy, BAC, and Mischiviousness= are >> all set to their initial values for all Objects that have these >Properties, >> as though these Objects had just been created. >> The player who was awarded the Win receives one point of Respect and one >> point of Wins. >> The effects listed in Rule 440 occur, as though Universal Entropy had >> exceeded Maximum Entropy. >> The Clock is turned Off until the Watch reads three wdays [[so we can >have a >> bit of a breather]] >> If possible, play continues normally. > >Take out the ClockStop. Please! You will PAY for your victories, miscreant! >> B.7. Entropy >> At the end of each nweek, each player's Entropy shall increase by an >amount >> equal to the sum of the number of proposals e had on the ballot for that >> nweek which passed and 1/2 the number of game actions (movements, >purchases, >> throws, etc.)taken during that nweek. This includes any Actions which >> otherwise have no effect on any Object, Property, or Value [[Such as >"Orc In >> a Spacesuit plays in the mud at ier position]]. [[See Game State for >more on >> Entropy]]. Does this mean the Administrator has to recognize all actions, legal or= not, inasmuch as even illegal actions add to one's entropy? >> B.9. Mischiviousness The state of having incorrectly been willing to chivvy? >> B.11. Nobility >> Each Player's Nobility is always equal to the number of Titles e has. > >I see. So one's Nobility goes up when one uses one's Style points to buy more= titles? >> {{__Game State__ >> The Object Game State exists, with the following Properties: Name,= Types, >> Status, nday, nweek, nyear, wday, wweek, wyear, Universal Entropy, >Maximum >> Entropy. > >So thing such as the existance of players and other objects are not part= of >the GameState? Nor, for that matter, are the rules. >> {{__Actions__ >> Preamble: This rule defers to all other rules except __Objects__, except >> when specified otherwise. >> >> A. Definition >> Entities may take Actions permitted them in the Rules. No non-Entity >Object >> may take Actions. Actions are not Objects. Actually, making actions objects might be useful, especially when it comes= to rolling the clock forward: just delete those action objects that need= deleting, then re-perform the rest. Course, then all actions would need= to be uniquely identified... >> A.1. Effects of all Actions >> Whenever an Entity takes a non-proposal Action, if it has the Property >> Entropy, it's Entropy shall increase by .5. If this equal increase is >> stated elsewhere in the rules, and is not stated to be a different >increase, >> then both increases shall be considered one, and eir Entropy shall >increase >> only by for both increases. This section defers to all other rules and >> sections of rules, except as specified otherwise. > >only by for both increases? Not sure what you want to say there... This turns into apples and oranges with the earlier rule that said entropy= was calculated from 1/2 the non-proposal actions. From a practical sense,= yes, this means a non-proposal action produces .5 entropy, but strictly= speaking .5 per action isn't the same as 1/2 of the number of actions. >> B. Restriction >> Any Action defined or referenced in any rule is a Restricted Action. >> Restricted Actions may only be taken when specifically permitted by the >> Rules. Any Action which is not Restricted is Unrestricted.= Unrestricted >> Actions may be taken by any Entity at any time. Unrestricted Actions do >not >> change any Object, Property, or Value, including Rules and Proposals, So rules are objects, properties or values? >and do >> not affect the game in any way, except as follows: >> Unrestricted Actions cause the normal change in Entropy, if applicable. > >What is considered to be an Unrestricted Action? You've never actually >defined Action - does my raising my hand count as an 'Action'? How about= if >I pick my nose, or take my yearly bath? Then you'll have to return my green shirt. >> Unrestricted Actions are part of posts in Public Forums, and may cause >> events related to posts, but not the actual content of the Unrestricted >> Action > >Ah, so it has to be in a post. Still, does, for example, the post itself >count as an Action? Give me time and I will come up with a way to make gremlins perform actions= without being told that aren't listed in the rules. Would such actions be= restricted since there must be some indirect mechanism to permit them,= unrestricted since they aren't listed in the rules, or neither since= they're not part of posts in public forums? >> Unrestricted Actions may be processed by and may affect the judgement of >> Independent Entities. Note that this processing and affection of >judgement >> are completly beyond the control of the Action (ie, an Unrestricted >Actions >> can't say "Wonko decides to vote 'no' on all ballots this week" and make >it >> so; however, as a result of processing an Action, may decide so of ier >own >> free will). > >completly -> completely; ier -> eir; You've used 'this' in front of >something you later used 'are' for (processing and affection of judgement) >- >is it singular or plural? >Judgement is actually spelt Judgment Spelt is a kind of european wheat. So judgement is sort of judgment bran? And how is judgement or judgment defined in this context? I assure you I'm= not going to get drunk on any action taken in this game. Unconscious from= laughing too hard, maybe, but not drunk. >> C. Performance of Actions >> An Action is attempted by either a Rule saying an Entity does it, or by >an >> Entity stating that e does it in a Public Forum. Actions may only be >taken >> while The Clock is On. > >So, for example, the admin could not end a Road Trip while the Clock was >Off, because that would be an action? Have we determined that the administrator is an entity? >> If any Action cannot be completed in part, then the entire Action fails, >and >> does not happen. The only Event that happens is that the Acting Entity >> tried to perform the Action; The Action does not happen. Valid Targets >must >> be specifiedIf there is no valid Targets for an action (if that action >has >> targets), then the Action fails. > >specifiedIf -> specified; If "cannot be completed in part" -- an action must contain sub-actions? >> D. List of Restricted Actions >> The following Actions are Restricted. Parentheses seperate parts of a >> senctence in this section, and are used for clarity. Other Restricted >> Actions may be defined elsewhere. If any Action listed in this Rule is >> defined in another Rule, this definition supercedes the other, unless >such >> definition's intent is to define additional effects or qualifications of >the >> Action, in which case the Effects defined at both are true, unless such >> truth would directly result in a paradox or is impossible, in which the >> definition not listed here is entirely null and void. This section up= to >> this point takes precedence over all other Rules and parts of them, >except >> when specified otherwise. Notes are addtional Rules. Wording is an >> alternate way to state an action, and may be adjusted for proper= grammar. >> In Wording, '<>' are used to deliniate either Values or plain English >text, >> and may include names and pronouns The Wheel of Precedence seems to get re-invented multiple times in this= proposal... >> Action: Move >> Action: Jump >> Action: Throw >> Action: Launch >> Action: Give >> Action: Refuse >> Action: Exchange These all appear to be grid actions. I think I'd rather see grid actions= enclosed in a grid rule, which can be conveniently repealed in its= entirety, leaving the rest of the ruleset standing. >> }} >> {{__Events__ >> Events are things that happen. The following are events: >> Any Object is created, modified or destroyed (including rules and >proposals) >> Any Action is attempted >> Any Action is completed >> Any Action is failed >> }} >You'll probably want a closing }} here... > >Other than that, I like it. Good Job. Okay. I didn't read this that closely the first time it was posted...I= figured I'd have time to read it once it got formally proposed. Silly of= me. As it is, I've cut out sections I'm not commenting on at this time.= And I kick Wonko in the ass for having performed the act of Unbridled= Hostility of stuffing my mail archive with 37k messages. But this time around I've noticed a couple things: (1) a strong resemblance= to Microsoft Visual Basic documentation; and (2) a tendency to blend the= syntactical with the existential. Both of these would make a certain= amount of sense if you were detailing how to textually represent the= gamestate such that it can be loaded into a relational database, but= they're not as useful when trying to understand what something IS. A= collection of things is not a list, and certainly not a= semicolon-delimited list; it is a collection of things. The plurality of= things isn't necessarily determined by whether a thing is referenced with= a parenthesized number following it, and I'm not sure it's actually useful= to prevent me from saying, "an earth gnome, and another earth gnome, and= yet another earth gnome". OiaS is trying to define, I think, a hierarchical database. I personally= think this is inadequate to define the game. Glotmorf From glotmorf@earthlink.net Sat, 17 Aug 2002 06:01:05 -0400 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 06:01:05 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Gnome Record- now with 48% MORE brackets! On 8/17/02 at 1:10 AM Baron von Skippy wrote: >[[Let me see here... ah yes. All gnomes in the Game, except those I have, >because I'm special, were taken from their original owners, who were then >given one Bomb Gnome for each Gnome thus taken. Now might be a good time >to >stop with Kick references, as bd has enough Bomb Gnomes to take down a >small >city, and for some reason, every time I roll this die, it comes up "1." >Whoops, I'm reading off of a report for /next/ nweek. Here's the current >one:]] > >No thing has been done with Gnomes. Dull. As is the norm. It does not rain= >but it pours, I think. I can double-check if you like, but I do think ministry reports are immune= to entropy. Glotmorf From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Sat, 17 Aug 2002 17:10:01 -0400 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 17:10:01 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Synopsis On Friday 16 August 2002 11:51 pm, Baron von Skippy wrote: > > >-[[Pardon me while I grin massively. Even if there won't be two wins > > >and/or > > >blowups, I've still kicked bd for everyone else. That's what, 70 poi= nts? > > >Cool, I'm not in last place any more.]]- > > > >You didn't kick em for me. I was the first kicker. Thank you for you= r > >concern. > > > >=09=09=09=09=09=09Glotmorf > > -[[Seeing as you are 280 ahead of me, fighting over 5 is kind of dumb, = but > then again, I am broke and I have a Gnome habit to maintain. You didn't= say > for what you were kicking him when you did. And when you assigned a rea= son, > it was Wonko's, for perpetuating an e-mail hoax. So I still get all 14,= as > you never kicked him for hostility.]]- I belive the rule for Hostility requires that I *specifically state* a=20 defendant. I didn't, and furthermore, there are no defendants at all. No=20 other entry in the rule can be used in this instance :) Moreover, the e-m= ail=20 hoax argument is specious. The admin won't buy it (I hope), and personall= y, I=20 think he'll just refuse to recognise the CFIs. --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Sat, 17 Aug 2002 17:11:55 -0400 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 17:11:55 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Gnome Record- now with 48% MORE brackets! On Saturday 17 August 2002 01:10 am, Baron von Skippy wrote: > [[Let me see here... ah yes. All gnomes in the Game, except those I hav= e, > because I'm special, were taken from their original owners, who were th= en > given one Bomb Gnome for each Gnome thus taken. Now might be a good tim= e to > stop with Kick references, as bd has enough Bomb Gnomes to take down a > small city, and for some reason, every time I roll this die, it comes u= p > "1." Whoops, I'm reading off of a report for /next/ nweek. Here's the > current one:]] > > No thing has been done with Gnomes. Dull. As is the norm. It does not r= ain > but it pours, I think. [[ Right. How many bonb gnomes do I have again, and how many players have= =20 tried to Kick me? ]] --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Sat, 17 Aug 2002 17:08:20 -0500 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 17:08:20 -0500 From: Orc In A Spacesuit orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Re: [spoon-discuss] Too quiet, bd? Well, you did a nice reply, and so did Glotmorf, but you used the old version. The latest (but still incomplete) version is at http://comp.uark.edu/~jas29/nomic/ and is a combination of uber-prop_new-rules.txt, uber-prop_repeals+revisions.txt, and uber-prop_new-grid.txt. uber-prop_summary.txt is an in-progress summary of actual changes, and is far from finalized. The reason I put it on the web page instead of sending it via email is so that I don't fill your email with 80 kb emails (and their responses), and so you guys will always have access to the latest version. In response to Glotmorf's concerns about it looking like VB and a database, I have already fixed that up some. Many grammar mistakes have been fixed, and more. I still plan to rework actions, as it doesn't yet seem right. A lot of things you had problems with are fixed, and others will be. Here are a few specific responses: >If a physical object can be in only one location, that means that if >DimSpace is defined to be a Physical Region, players could not occupy both >a >DimSpace location and a GridSpace Location. That's bad. Well, this rule defers to that imaginary DimSpace one. I have thought of a much better way to do DimSpace, without all the confusing Location stuff getting mixed in. All I need if for you guys to say you want Dimensions, and it's in. >Under the current ruleset, at least, these also need to be able to be the >target of an action which moves them (moves them from one square to a >consecutive one, that is) due to things such as PinBall Guns. Fixing that when I rework the Actions. >I've been trying for a long time to come up with something to do with Quake >. Any ideas? Yes, I have it completely worked out in my mind. Why do you think I included the (currently useless) Action, Dodge Matrix-Style? Were gonna play MatrixNomiQuake and Jedi Football! >Nevermind, I've just had a few... Has anyone here ever played 'Worms'? >If you have, think about what might come of mixing a Sheep Gnome with a >Bomb >Gnome... Yes. I am considering adding more Gnome possibilities when I streamline the whole Gnome thing. >So thing such as the existance of players and other objects are not part of >the GameState? I am making the Gamestate be something different, just an Object that is a catch-all for things that don't really apply elsewhere. All the "don't mess with the Game State" rules and provisions have been (or will be) rewritten to apply to everything. >So, for example, the admin could not end a Road Trip while the Clock was >Off, because that would be an action? This rule defers to those that contradict it, and when I get to the (now self-repealed) Road Trip rule, I will include "this action may be taken while The Clock is Off". Already did the same for Leave. >Also, what about the 'no climbing' rule - you can't move to a square whose >depth is less than yours by more than 4 units. Will be fixed when I rework Actions. > > Action: Jump >How does this differ from Move? It lets you skip a space, and move 2. I will probably make it let you deal with some height restrictions. >Matrix Dodging is all-new, isn't it? Yup. > > Action: Launch >So, same as Throw, but 1 nday longer? Why not just allow Throwing >things >to specify a time? This is suppossed to represent just tossing something up really high in the air, and having it land randomly. I wanted to do that in-game, and I figured I would make it possible. Orc In A Spacesuit Current Status: Still working away, trying to assauge all your concerns. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From mhaywood383@hotmail.com Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:11:39 -0400 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:11:39 -0400 From: Mark Haywood mhaywood383@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Synopsis >> > BvS: To the other longer-running players: Is it just me, or are the >> > newbies coming in better at the game and/or sharper at the tongue >>lately? >> > >> > Glotmorf: Some other Nomic game let out recently? College students >> > returning to their dorms and accompanying internet access? Or an >> > amazing number of lurkers who have been watching us for nweeks on >>end...? >> > >> > Orc: For me, try a college kid at home for the summer stumbles upon the >> > game of Nomic, and in 2 days finds B Nomic, that night reads the >>ruleset, >> > and the next day joins the game. Old and new people, what's your >>story? >> > >> > bd: I read about calvinball on c2.com wiki. I read about nomic. I want >>to >> > nomic.net. I searched alive games. End of story. >> >>One of my friends returned from vacation, bringing tales of a strange game >>similar to some that I knew but much more freeform. I looked it up, and >>soon >>a face game had started among myself and some associates. Our ruleset, >>however, soon became terminally screwed, and I began to look elsewhere for >>Nomic to play. I found this game on December 10, 5 days after its >>creation, >>and joined about a week later. > >-[[I entered during nweek 6, after hearing a couple of friends of mine >talking about some Nomic game they were playing online. Having a smidge of >experience with the game, I looked around and happened upon B Nomic. Being >foolish, I read the ruleset and joined within one evening, and barely >managed to do anything useful for three nweeks, during which time I managed >to look silly and piss of uin. Ah, good times... then a friend and I came >up with a huge "tech tree" of Gnomes. The rest most of you know. Vote yes >on the PGGB prop!]]- I heard about Nomic last year from a friend of mine at college, but kept sort of forgetting about it, until this year, when, as Glotmorf said, I returned to school and the associated Internet connection. In what might prove to be a silly move, I looked for a game, happened upon this one, watched for a few days, and joined. Hopefully, I'll be able to continue having enough free time to play. No problems so far, so we'll see. ________________________________________________________________________ Mithrandir _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:43:59 -0400 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:43:59 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Gnome Record- now with 48% MORE brackets! > >[[Let me see here... ah yes. All gnomes in the Game, except those I have, > >because I'm special, were taken from their original owners, who were then > >given one Bomb Gnome for each Gnome thus taken. Now might be a good time > >to > >stop with Kick references, as bd has enough Bomb Gnomes to take down a > >small > >city, and for some reason, every time I roll this die, it comes up "1." > >Whoops, I'm reading off of a report for /next/ nweek. Here's the current > >one:]] > > > >No thing has been done with Gnomes. Dull. As is the norm. It does not >rain > >but it pours, I think. > >I can double-check if you like, but I do think ministry reports are immune >to entropy. > > Glotmorf > -[[Well, I can't single-check, as the ruleset is down, so that would be great, thank you. I'm getting really tired of sounding like I'm in a first-year English class... maybe I can push universal entropy over the 500 mark to make this limit go away. But how...]]- [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:50:55 -0400 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:50:55 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Synopsis > > > >-[[Pardon me while I grin massively. Even if there won't be two wins > > > >and/or > > > >blowups, I've still kicked bd for everyone else. That's what, 70 >points? > > > >Cool, I'm not in last place any more.]]- > > > > > >You didn't kick em for me. I was the first kicker. Thank you for your > > >concern. > > > > > > Glotmorf > > > > -[[Seeing as you are 280 ahead of me, fighting over 5 is kind of dumb, >but > > then again, I am broke and I have a Gnome habit to maintain. You didn't >say > > for what you were kicking him when you did. And when you assigned a >reason, > > it was Wonko's, for perpetuating an e-mail hoax. So I still get all 14, >as > > you never kicked him for hostility.]]- > >I belive the rule for Hostility requires that I *specifically state* a >defendant. I didn't, and furthermore, there are no defendants at all. No >other entry in the rule can be used in this instance :) Moreover, the >e-mail >hoax argument is specious. The admin won't buy it (I hope), and personally, >I >think he'll just refuse to recognise the CFIs. >-- >bd >The above == my from field. Duh. > -[[No, bd, that's not why I'm kicking you. I'm kicking you for "unbridled hostility" in a different light. "Hostility" is defined by M-W dictionary to be "a deep-seated usually mutual ill-will." Now, I'd say that anyone forced to wade through 70 of your CFIs will be feeling a little ill-will towards you. And you seem to be felling it towards us, by wasting our time and energy so. No one feeling good will would do such a thing. So you're hostile, but is it unbridled? Why, yes, it is: ONE THOUSAND AND ONE CFIS is a tad "unbridled." So I'm kicking you 1001 times for it. Or 14. Depends how Dave interprets it. (He's already said you're getting it in the nutsack, so I wouldn't bet on his being too friendly to your cause.)]]- [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:52:36 -0400 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:52:36 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Gnome Record- now with 48% MORE brackets! > > [[Let me see here... ah yes. All gnomes in the Game, except those I >have, > > because I'm special, were taken from their original owners, who were >then > > given one Bomb Gnome for each Gnome thus taken. Now might be a good time >to > > stop with Kick references, as bd has enough Bomb Gnomes to take down a > > small city, and for some reason, every time I roll this die, it comes up > > "1." Whoops, I'm reading off of a report for /next/ nweek. Here's the > > current one:]] > > > > No thing has been done with Gnomes. Dull. As is the norm. It does not >rain > > but it pours, I think. > >[[ Right. How many bonb gnomes do I have again, and how many players have >tried to Kick me? ]] > >-- >bd >The above == my from field. Duh. > -Four Bomb Gnomes [[and four players, for... I think it's 2005 kicks. Have I started a bracket fashion?]]- [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:54:38 -0400 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:54:38 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Gnome Record- now with 48% MORE brackets! On Saturday 17 August 2002 09:43 pm, Baron von Skippy wrote: > -[[Well, I can't single-check, as the ruleset is down, so that would be > great, thank you. I'm getting really tired of sounding like I'm in a > first-year English class... maybe I can push universal entropy over the= 500 > mark to make this limit go away. But how...]]- Idea: Make CFIs give one point of entropy. Then the previous CFI binge is= =20 called-for. Ish. :) --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:55:22 -0400 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:55:22 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Synopsis On Saturday 17 August 2002 09:50 pm, Baron von Skippy wrote: > > > > >-[[Pardon me while I grin massively. Even if there won't be two = wins > > > > >and/or > > > > >blowups, I've still kicked bd for everyone else. That's what, 70 > > > >points? > > > > > > >Cool, I'm not in last place any more.]]- > > > > > > > >You didn't kick em for me. I was the first kicker. Thank you for > > > > your concern. > > > > > > > >=09=09=09=09=09=09Glotmorf > > > > > > -[[Seeing as you are 280 ahead of me, fighting over 5 is kind of du= mb, > > > >but > > > > > then again, I am broke and I have a Gnome habit to maintain. You di= dn't > > > >say > > > > > for what you were kicking him when you did. And when you assigned a > > > >reason, > > > > > it was Wonko's, for perpetuating an e-mail hoax. So I still get all= 14, > > > >as > > > > > you never kicked him for hostility.]]- > > > >I belive the rule for Hostility requires that I *specifically state* a > >defendant. I didn't, and furthermore, there are no defendants at all. = No > >other entry in the rule can be used in this instance :) Moreover, the > >e-mail > >hoax argument is specious. The admin won't buy it (I hope), and > > personally, I > >think he'll just refuse to recognise the CFIs. > >-- > >bd > >The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. > > -[[No, bd, that's not why I'm kicking you. I'm kicking you for "unbridl= ed > hostility" in a different light. "Hostility" is defined by M-W dictiona= ry > to be "a deep-seated usually mutual ill-will." Now, I'd say that anyone > forced to wade through 70 of your CFIs will be feeling a little ill-wil= l > towards you. And you seem to be felling it towards us, by wasting our t= ime > and energy so. No one feeling good will would do such a thing. So you'r= e > hostile, but is it unbridled? Why, yes, it is: ONE THOUSAND AND ONE CFI= S is > a tad "unbridled." So I'm kicking you 1001 times for it. Or 14. Depends= how > Dave interprets it. (He's already said you're getting it in the nutsack= , so > I wouldn't bet on his being too friendly to your cause.)]]- [[ Oh. Can I rescind them, or is it too late? ]] I resind my last 1001 CFIs. --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Sat, 17 Aug 2002 22:32:47 -0400 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 22:32:47 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Gnome Record- now with 48% MORE brackets! > > -[[Well, I can't single-check, as the ruleset is down, so that would be > > great, thank you. I'm getting really tired of sounding like I'm in a > > first-year English class... maybe I can push universal entropy over the >500 > > mark to make this limit go away. But how...]]- > >Idea: Make CFIs give one point of entropy. Then the previous CFI binge is >called-for. Ish. :) > >-- >bd >The above == my from field. Duh. > -[[Well, we can't have retroactive application, although, and without the ruleset I can't check this, if CFIs are like most game actions, you've just pushed your personal entropy over 500.]]- [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Sat, 17 Aug 2002 22:35:21 -0400 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 22:35:21 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Synopsis > > > > > >-[[Pardon me while I grin massively. Even if there won't be two >wins > > > > > >and/or > > > > > >blowups, I've still kicked bd for everyone else. That's what, 70 > > > > > >points? > > > > > > > > >Cool, I'm not in last place any more.]]- > > > > > > > > > >You didn't kick em for me. I was the first kicker. Thank you for > > > > > your concern. > > > > > > > > > > Glotmorf > > > > > > > > -[[Seeing as you are 280 ahead of me, fighting over 5 is kind of >dumb, > > > > > >but > > > > > > > then again, I am broke and I have a Gnome habit to maintain. You >didn't > > > > > >say > > > > > > > for what you were kicking him when you did. And when you assigned a > > > > > >reason, > > > > > > > it was Wonko's, for perpetuating an e-mail hoax. So I still get all >14, > > > > > >as > > > > > > > you never kicked him for hostility.]]- > > > > > >I belive the rule for Hostility requires that I *specifically state* a > > >defendant. I didn't, and furthermore, there are no defendants at all. >No > > >other entry in the rule can be used in this instance :) Moreover, the > > >e-mail > > >hoax argument is specious. The admin won't buy it (I hope), and > > > personally, I > > >think he'll just refuse to recognise the CFIs. > > >-- > > >bd > > >The above == my from field. Duh. > > > > -[[No, bd, that's not why I'm kicking you. I'm kicking you for >"unbridled > > hostility" in a different light. "Hostility" is defined by M-W >dictionary > > to be "a deep-seated usually mutual ill-will." Now, I'd say that anyone > > forced to wade through 70 of your CFIs will be feeling a little ill-will > > towards you. And you seem to be felling it towards us, by wasting our >time > > and energy so. No one feeling good will would do such a thing. So you're > > hostile, but is it unbridled? Why, yes, it is: ONE THOUSAND AND ONE CFIS >is > > a tad "unbridled." So I'm kicking you 1001 times for it. Or 14. Depends >how > > Dave interprets it. (He's already said you're getting it in the nutsack, >so > > I wouldn't bet on his being too friendly to your cause.)]]- > >[[ Oh. Can I rescind them, or is it too late? ]] > >I resind my last 1001 CFIs. > >-- >bd >The above == my from field. Duh. > > -[[I'm not sure if this supercedes your having the bejeezus kicked out of you through your nose, but it is a lot less work for everyone else, so that's a little. I'm still waiting on rescinding /my/ CFI, though.]]- [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From glotmorf@earthlink.net Sat, 17 Aug 2002 23:03:48 -0400 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 23:03:48 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Gnome Record- now with 48% MORE brackets! On 8/17/02 at 10:32 PM Baron von Skippy wrote: >> > -[[Well, I can't single-check, as the ruleset is down, so that would >be >> > great, thank you. I'm getting really tired of sounding like I'm in a >> > first-year English class... maybe I can push universal entropy over >the >>500 >> > mark to make this limit go away. But how...]]- >> >>Idea: Make CFIs give one point of entropy. Then the previous CFI binge is >>called-for. Ish. :) >> >>-- >>bd >>The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. >> >-[[Well, we can't have retroactive application, although, and without the >ruleset I can't check this, if CFIs are like most game actions, you've >just >pushed your personal entropy over 500.]]- Twice. And then e rescinded them all. So that's...dear lord...four= armageddons? Glotmorf From glotmorf@earthlink.net Sat, 17 Aug 2002 23:05:26 -0400 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 23:05:26 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Gnome Record- now with 48% MORE brackets! On 8/17/02 at 9:43 PM Baron von Skippy wrote: >-[[Well, I can't single-check, as the ruleset is down, so that would be >great, thank you. I'm getting really tired of sounding like I'm in a >first-year English class... maybe I can push universal entropy over the >500 >mark to make this limit go away. But how...]]- Straw poll? Who wants me to just email the ruleset to this mailing list?= I'd been avoiding it because it's rather big, but if everyone would like= a copy...? Glotmorf From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Sat, 17 Aug 2002 23:24:34 -0400 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 23:24:34 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Gnome Record- now with 48% MORE brackets! On Saturday 17 August 2002 11:05 pm, Glotmorf wrote: > On 8/17/02 at 9:43 PM Baron von Skippy wrote: > >-[[Well, I can't single-check, as the ruleset is down, so that would b= e > >great, thank you. I'm getting really tired of sounding like I'm in a > >first-year English class... maybe I can push universal entropy over th= e > >500 > >mark to make this limit go away. But how...]]- > > Straw poll? Who wants me to just email the ruleset to this mailing lis= t?=20 > I'd been avoiding it because it's rather big, but if everyone would lik= e a > copy...? Attach a copy and send it to me, I can put it on a ftp server. --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Sat, 17 Aug 2002 23:33:44 -0400 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 23:33:44 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Gnome Record- now with 48% MORE brackets! Quoth Glotmorf, > On 8/17/02 at 9:43 PM Baron von Skippy wrote: > >> -[[Well, I can't single-check, as the ruleset is down, so that would be >> great, thank you. I'm getting really tired of sounding like I'm in a >> first-year English class... maybe I can push universal entropy over the >> 500 >> mark to make this limit go away. But how...]]- > > Straw poll? Who wants me to just email the ruleset to this mailing list? I'd > been avoiding it because it's rather big, but if everyone would like a > copy...? > Orc posted the ruleset you sent em - it's at http://comp.uark.edu/~jas29/nomic/Rules-B4_Joel_moved.htm -- Wonko From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Sat, 17 Aug 2002 23:47:07 -0400 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 23:47:07 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Re: [spoon-discuss] Too quiet, bd? Quoth Glotmorf, > On 8/16/02 at 11:35 PM Wonko wrote: >=20 >> Okay, this is based on the draft you sent out. A lot of the spelling and >> grammar points I mention have probably already been fixed, but just in >> case, >> they're all here. I'm certain that not all of the things I object to are >> fixed in the currently posted version. >=20 > I'm starting to get a weird idea...What if we had a second ruleset that w= e > could experiment with, such that if we were ever all happy with it we cou= ld > swap it in? I mean, OiaB's The Prop sounds like it's big enough that > modifying and maintaining it would be as involved as the main game... I was thinking of doing something similar to that to expand r0 - the rule which says that all entities must follow the rules could then be amended to say, 'all Game entities must follow ruleset A, unless a SOE is declared, in which case all Game Entities must follow ruleset B." >>> Well, here goes, and remember, you have bd to blame for sending this >>> incomplete mess to you... >>=20 >> I'd kick em again, but I'm tired of kicking the same person over an over >> again... Somebody else do something stupid ;) >=20 > Some straight lines just can't be bought...:) Hmmm.... Buying Kicks.... Interesting idea.... >>> {{ >>> I propose the following rules: >>> {{__Objects__ >>> Preamble: The following words are capitalized in this Rule to show tha= t >>> they have special meaning. In all references outside this Rule, these >> words >>> need not be capitalized. These words are: Rule, Object, Property, Valu= e, >>> Type, items in quotes, and the plural versions of those. Any reference >=20 > "items in quotes" are capitalized in this rule but don't need to be other= wise? > What if I, by Eddie, WANT to capitalize something in quotes? :) It says "need not", not cannot. You still can. >> to >>> one of those words between '<' and '>' indicate that one of the word >> between >>> the <> should be subsituted. This Rule and all parts of it defers to a= ll >>> Rules or parts of Rules that do not say they defer to this Rule, unless >>> otherwise specified. IF a rule supercedes this rule, all parts not >> Otherwise specified by this rule, you mean? >>> specifcally superceded or contradicted are still in effect. >=20 > Why not make this a general case -- work it into the precedence rule? >=20 >>> A. Definition >>> In this game, there are Objects. All Objects have Properties. >> Properties >>> have Values. An Object may only have a Property defined in a Rule, and >>> Property may only have a Value defined in a Rule. Also, Objects, >> Properties >>> of Objects and Values of Properties may not be modified, removed, added >> or >>> redefined except as stated in a Rule. No Values may be over 255 >> characters >>> in length. In the case of a Value being a deliniated list, each item i= n >> the >>> list may not be over 255 characters, and the list as a whole is >> unlimited . >>> If a list contains 2 or ore identical values, then all but the first of >> ore -> more >>> those values is removed, unless specified otherwise. If a Property has= a >>> default value, then that default Value if assigned to that Value upon >>> creation of that object, unless specifed otherwise. If there is no >> default >>> Value and no other Value is specified, then the Property shall be empty >> if >>> it is a string or list (contain no characters or Values), and be 0 if i= t >> is >>> a number. If those Values are not valid, and not default or other >> starting >> not -> no >>> Values are specified, the Action creating the Object fails. All lists = in >>> this Rule are semicolon-deliniated. A "P-Integer" is an Integer that m= ay >>> not be lower than 0. "Real" means "Real Number" when it is stated as a >>> Value Type. If an Action would result in any Value being an invalid >> Value, >>> that entire Action does not happen. >>>=20 >>> A.1. >>> Objects have the Property "Name", which is a string consisting of >>> alphanumeric, whitespace, and non-semicolon, non-parentheses punctuatio= n. >>> Each object shall be referred to as either "", "The " or "T= he >>> (Description to differentiate this Object from others with the >> same >>> Name)", or by "". All Objects are given a name upon creation= . >>> All Independent Entities choose their own Name upon creation; all other >>> Objects are given their Name by definition. No Name can be equal to any >>> Property or Value, except as specified by a Rule [[No superceding >> necessary, >>> a Rule just has to specify otherwise]]. >>>=20 >>> Names are used for identification. Any similarity between the string of >>> characters that constitute the name of an Object and a string of >> characters >>> in the text of a Proposal, Rule, or Judgment shall have no impact on th= e >>> implementation of that Proposal, Rule, or Judgment, unless the language >> of >>> the Proposal, Rule, or Judgment specifically indicates the string of >>> characters is referring to an Object of that name. [[For example, "the >>> player JohnDoe" or "the player named JohnDoe."]] >=20 > ...In which case, the impact is what? The impact is whatever the proposal said. This is taken from the current ruleset, and it is why I do not fear bd's proposed rule regarding my stock market usage - if a rule refers to 'Wonko', it doesn't mean me unless it specifies that it's talking about the player. This is from way back when, when uin tried to change eir name to 'the rules'. >>> B.2. >>> If a Player is "Awarded a Win", the following occur: >>> The Rule {{ __No Win For You__ {* Win, 9 *} >>> Wins may not be awarded. This rule supercedes all other rules.}} is >>> created.[[No vote necessary]]. >>> Score, BNS, Charm, Activity, Style, Entropy, BAC, and Mischiviousness a= re >>> all set to their initial values for all Objects that have these >> Properties, >>> as though these Objects had just been created. >>> The player who was awarded the Win receives one point of Respect and on= e >>> point of Wins. >>> The effects listed in Rule 440 occur, as though Universal Entropy had >>> exceeded Maximum Entropy. >>> The Clock is turned Off until the Watch reads three wdays [[so we can >> have a >>> bit of a breather]] >>> If possible, play continues normally. >>=20 >> Take out the ClockStop. Please! >=20 > You will PAY for your victories, miscreant! >=20 >>> B.7. Entropy >>> At the end of each nweek, each player's Entropy shall increase by an >> amount >>> equal to the sum of the number of proposals e had on the ballot for tha= t >>> nweek which passed and 1/2 the number of game actions (movements, >> purchases, >>> throws, etc.)taken during that nweek. This includes any Actions which >>> otherwise have no effect on any Object, Property, or Value [[Such as >> "Orc In >>> a Spacesuit plays in the mud at ier position]]. [[See Game State for >> more on >>> Entropy]]. >=20 > Does this mean the Administrator has to recognize all actions, legal or n= ot, > inasmuch as even illegal actions add to one's entropy? >=20 >>> B.9. Mischiviousness >=20 > The state of having incorrectly been willing to chivvy? >=20 >>> B.11. Nobility >>> Each Player's Nobility is always equal to the number of Titles e has. >>=20 >> I see. >=20 > So one's Nobility goes up when one uses one's Style points to buy more ti= tles? Those ain't titles; Them's is Style Atterbyoots! >>> {{__Game State__ >>> The Object Game State exists, with the following Properties: Name, Type= s, >>> Status, nday, nweek, nyear, wday, wweek, wyear, Universal Entropy, >> Maximum >>> Entropy. >>=20 >> So thing such as the existance of players and other objects are not part= of >> the GameState? >=20 > Nor, for that matter, are the rules. Pure Nomic! Whee!=20 Except without the Nomic part.... Pure! Whee! >>> {{__Actions__ >>> Preamble: This rule defers to all other rules except __Objects__, excep= t >>> when specified otherwise. >>>=20 >>> A. Definition >>> Entities may take Actions permitted them in the Rules. No non-Entity >> Object >>> may take Actions. Actions are not Objects. >=20 > Actually, making actions objects might be useful, especially when it come= s to > rolling the clock forward: just delete those action objects that need > deleting, then re-perform the rest. Course, then all actions would need = to be > uniquely identified... >=20 >>> A.1. Effects of all Actions >>> Whenever an Entity takes a non-proposal Action, if it has the Property >>> Entropy, it's Entropy shall increase by .5. If this equal increase is >>> stated elsewhere in the rules, and is not stated to be a different >> increase, >>> then both increases shall be considered one, and eir Entropy shall >> increase >>> only by for both increases. This section defers to all other rules and >>> sections of rules, except as specified otherwise. >>=20 >> only by for both increases? Not sure what you want to say there... >=20 > This turns into apples and oranges with the earlier rule that said entrop= y was > calculated from 1/2 the non-proposal actions. From a practical sense, ye= s, > this means a non-proposal action produces .5 entropy, but strictly speaki= ng .5 > per action isn't the same as 1/2 of the number of actions. >=20 >>> B. Restriction >>> Any Action defined or referenced in any rule is a Restricted Action. >>> Restricted Actions may only be taken when specifically permitted by the >>> Rules. Any Action which is not Restricted is Unrestricted. Unrestrict= ed >>> Actions may be taken by any Entity at any time. Unrestricted Actions d= o >> not >>> change any Object, Property, or Value, including Rules and Proposals, >=20 > So rules are objects, properties or values? >=20 >> and do >>> not affect the game in any way, except as follows: >>> Unrestricted Actions cause the normal change in Entropy, if applicable. >>=20 >> What is considered to be an Unrestricted Action? You've never actually >> defined Action - does my raising my hand count as an 'Action'? How about= if >> I pick my nose, or take my yearly bath? >=20 > Then you'll have to return my green shirt. Awww, but I wanted that shirt. :( Wait a minute - you've already admitted to having but one shirt that isn't green, and now you reveal that you only have one green shirt? Y'ever wonder if there's such thing as gettin' TOO involved in a game? >>> Unrestricted Actions are part of posts in Public Forums, and may cause >>> events related to posts, but not the actual content of the Unrestricted >>> Action >>=20 >> Ah, so it has to be in a post. Still, does, for example, the post itself >> count as an Action? >=20 > Give me time and I will come up with a way to make gremlins perform actio= ns > without being told that aren't listed in the rules. Would such actions b= e > restricted since there must be some indirect mechanism to permit them, > unrestricted since they aren't listed in the rules, or neither since they= 're > not part of posts in public forums? >=20 >>> Unrestricted Actions may be processed by and may affect the judgement o= f >>> Independent Entities. Note that this processing and affection of >> judgement >>> are completly beyond the control of the Action (ie, an Unrestricted >> Actions >>> can't say "Wonko decides to vote 'no' on all ballots this week" and mak= e >> it >>> so; however, as a result of processing an Action, may decide so of ier >> own >>> free will). >>=20 >> completly -> completely; ier -> eir; You've used 'this' in front of >> something you later used 'are' for (processing and affection of judgemen= t) >> - >> is it singular or plural? >> Judgement is actually spelt Judgment >=20 > Spelt is a kind of european wheat. So judgement is sort of judgment bran= ? spell v. spelled or spelt , spelling, spells. =8Btr. 1. To name or write in order the letters constituting (a word or part of a word). 2. To constitute the letters of (a word). 3. To add up to; signify. =8Bintr. To form words by means of letters. =8Bphrasal verbs. spell down. To defeat in a spelling bee. spell out. 1. To make perfectly clear and understandable. 2. To read slowly and laboriously. 3. To puzzle out; comprehend by study. spelt 1 n. A hardy wheat grown mostly in Europe. spelt 2 v. A past tense and a past participle of spell1. > And how is judgement or judgment defined in this context? I assure you I= 'm > not going to get drunk on any action taken in this game. Unconscious fro= m > laughing too hard, maybe, but not drunk. Nomic doesn't drunken you? I get drunk all the time 'cause of all them flyin' gnomes! >>> C. Performance of Actions >>> An Action is attempted by either a Rule saying an Entity does it, or by >> an >>> Entity stating that e does it in a Public Forum. Actions may only be >> taken >>> while The Clock is On. >>=20 >> So, for example, the admin could not end a Road Trip while the Clock was >> Off, because that would be an action? >=20 > Have we determined that the administrator is an entity? Under the current ruleset e is - e's a single object, and that's the SE definition. (Pity I banned non-player societal initial members, it would have been interesting to make the ruleset part of a society...) >>> If any Action cannot be completed in part, then the entire Action fails= , >> and >>> does not happen. The only Event that happens is that the Acting Entity >>> tried to perform the Action; The Action does not happen. Valid Targets >> must >>> be specifiedIf there is no valid Targets for an action (if that action >> has >>> targets), then the Action fails. >>=20 >> specifiedIf -> specified; If >=20 > "cannot be completed in part" -- an action must contain sub-actions? I think e means "if one effect of the action is illegal". >>> D. List of Restricted Actions >>> The following Actions are Restricted. Parentheses seperate parts of a >>> senctence in this section, and are used for clarity. Other Restricted >>> Actions may be defined elsewhere. If any Action listed in this Rule is >>> defined in another Rule, this definition supercedes the other, unless >> such >>> definition's intent is to define additional effects or qualifications o= f >> the >>> Action, in which case the Effects defined at both are true, unless such >>> truth would directly result in a paradox or is impossible, in which the >>> definition not listed here is entirely null and void. This section up = to >>> this point takes precedence over all other Rules and parts of them, >> except >>> when specified otherwise. Notes are addtional Rules. Wording is an >>> alternate way to state an action, and may be adjusted for proper gramma= r. >>> In Wording, '<>' are used to deliniate either Values or plain English >> text, >>> and may include names and pronouns >=20 > The Wheel of Precedence seems to get re-invented multiple times in this > proposal... That gives me another sub-game idea... >>> Action: Move >>> Action: Jump >>> Action: Throw >>> Action: Launch >>> Action: Give >>> Action: Refuse >>> Action: Exchange >=20 > These all appear to be grid actions. I think I'd rather see grid actions > enclosed in a grid rule, which can be conveniently repealed in its entire= ty, > leaving the rest of the ruleset standing. >=20 >>> }} >>> {{__Events__ >>> Events are things that happen. The following are events: >>> Any Object is created, modified or destroyed (including rules and >> proposals) >>> Any Action is attempted >>> Any Action is completed >>> Any Action is failed >>> }} >> You'll probably want a closing }} here... >>=20 >> Other than that, I like it. Good Job. >=20 > Okay. I didn't read this that closely the first time it was posted...I > figured I'd have time to read it once it got formally proposed. Silly of= me. > As it is, I've cut out sections I'm not commenting on at this time. And = I > kick Wonko in the ass for having performed the act of Unbridled Hostility= of > stuffing my mail archive with 37k messages. >=20 > But this time around I've noticed a couple things: (1) a strong resemblan= ce to > Microsoft Visual Basic documentation; and (2) a tendency to blend the > syntactical with the existential. Both of these would make a certain amo= unt > of sense if you were detailing how to textually represent the gamestate s= uch > that it can be loaded into a relational database, but they're not as usef= ul > when trying to understand what something IS. A collection of things is n= ot a > list, and certainly not a semicolon-delimited list; it is a collection of > things. The plurality of things isn't necessarily determined by whether = a > thing is referenced with a parenthesized number following it, and I'm not= sure > it's actually useful to prevent me from saying, "an earth gnome, and anot= her > earth gnome, and yet another earth gnome". >=20 > OiaS is trying to define, I think, a hierarchical database. I personally > think this is inadequate to define the game. There are some points of the game in regards to which I would agree with your statement. Wow, that was ugly grammar. Lemme try again: I would agree with your statement in regards to some points of the game. However, there are large areas of the game which could be put into a hierarchical database, and I think it would make things easier if they were= . --=20 Wonko From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Sat, 17 Aug 2002 23:47:23 -0400 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 23:47:23 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Re: [spoon-discuss] Too quiet, bd? Quoth Orc In A Spacesuit, > Well, you did a nice reply, and so did Glotmorf, but you used the old > version. The latest (but still incomplete) version is at > http://comp.uark.edu/~jas29/nomic/ > and is a combination of uber-prop_new-rules.txt, > uber-prop_repeals+revisions.txt, and uber-prop_new-grid.txt. > uber-prop_summary.txt is an in-progress summary of actual changes, and is > far from finalized. In explorer, at least, that's a pain in the patooku to read - there's no wrapping! > Here are a few specific responses: > >> If a physical object can be in only one location, that means that if >> DimSpace is defined to be a Physical Region, players could not occupy both >> a >> DimSpace location and a GridSpace Location. That's bad. > > Well, this rule defers to that imaginary DimSpace one. I have thought of a > much better way to do DimSpace, without all the confusing Location stuff > getting mixed in. All I need if for you guys to say you want Dimensions, > and it's in. The point I was trying to make is, what if we want people to be able to exist in multiple physical regions at once? >> I've been trying for a long time to come up with something to do with Quake >> . Any ideas? > > Yes, I have it completely worked out in my mind. Why do you think I > included the (currently useless) Action, Dodge Matrix-Style? Were gonna > play MatrixNomiQuake and Jedi Football! Oooh.... That could get interesting if I finish with Speeder Warfare... >> Nevermind, I've just had a few... Has anyone here ever played 'Worms'? > >> If you have, think about what might come of mixing a Sheep Gnome with a >> Bomb >> Gnome... > > Yes. I am considering adding more Gnome possibilities when I streamline the > whole Gnome thing. And if you give it a towel for its cape, you get a super-sheep! >> Matrix Dodging is all-new, isn't it? > > Yup. I would suggest, then, that you put it in another proposal. I'm not sure I like it the way it's currently written, and I'd hate to have to vote against your proposal just because there was one trivial bit that I didn't want to pass. >>> Action: Launch >> So, same as Throw, but 1 nday longer? Why not just allow Throwing >things >> to specify a time? > > This is suppossed to represent just tossing something up really high in the > air, and having it land randomly. I wanted to do that in-game, and I > figured I would make it possible. Add randonimity then - incorporate Elbonia-Throwing? -- Wonko From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Sun, 18 Aug 2002 00:04:49 -0400 Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 00:04:49 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Leave I go On Leave [[ Back in 4 days ]] [[BTW, any non-proposal action is worth 1/2 point of entropy, but not 'til the end of the nweek - at the end of this nweek, everybody's entropy shoots through the roof - 2002 for bd (1001 CFIs, 1001 repeals), 1001 for me, lord knows how many for the Baron and for Glotmorf, etc. But, since it all happens at once, Global entropy only exceeds maximum entropy once. The world has been blown up. ]] -- Wonko From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Sun, 18 Aug 2002 00:18:32 -0400 Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 00:18:32 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Gnome Record- now with 48% MORE brackets! > >> > -[[Well, I can't single-check, as the ruleset is down, so that would > >be > >> > great, thank you. I'm getting really tired of sounding like I'm in a > >> > first-year English class... maybe I can push universal entropy over > >the > >>500 > >> > mark to make this limit go away. But how...]]- > >> > >>Idea: Make CFIs give one point of entropy. Then the previous CFI binge >is > >>called-for. Ish. :) > >> > >>-- > >>bd > >>The above == my from field. Duh. > >> > >-[[Well, we can't have retroactive application, although, and without the > >ruleset I can't check this, if CFIs are like most game actions, you've > >just > >pushed your personal entropy over 500.]]- > >Twice. And then e rescinded them all. So that's...dear lord...four >armageddons? > > Glotmorf > -[[What are you talking about? It's .5 Entropy per action. e could only have caused two. Or are CFIs different? It's four if Kicks count towards Entropy, though. Hey, cool. 40 points each. That's fun.]]- [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Sun, 18 Aug 2002 00:20:43 -0400 Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 00:20:43 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Gnome Record- now with 48% MORE brackets! > >-[[Well, I can't single-check, as the ruleset is down, so that would be > >great, thank you. I'm getting really tired of sounding like I'm in a > >first-year English class... maybe I can push universal entropy over the > >500 > >mark to make this limit go away. But how...]]- > >Straw poll? Who wants me to just email the ruleset to this mailing list? >I'd been avoiding it because it's rather big, but if everyone would like a >copy...? > > Glotmorf > -[[How big is big? Anyone with a free e-mail account from a server like hotmail, yahoo, or mail can't handle more than 2 megs. And that's assuming there's nothing else on their account.]]- [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Sun, 18 Aug 2002 00:25:12 -0400 Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 00:25:12 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Leave >I go On Leave [[ Back in 4 days ]] > >[[BTW, any non-proposal action is worth 1/2 point of entropy, but not 'til >the end of the nweek - at the end of this nweek, everybody's entropy shoots >through the roof - 2002 for bd (1001 CFIs, 1001 repeals), 1001 for me, lord >knows how many for the Baron and for Glotmorf, etc. > >But, since it all happens at once, Global entropy only exceeds maximum >entropy once. The world has been blown up. >]] >-- >Wonko > Does that mean I can drop the "[[ ]]" thing? [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From nomicvoice0@hotmail.com Sun, 18 Aug 2002 12:50:42 -0400 Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 12:50:42 -0400 From: The Voice nomicvoice0@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] damn... I come back from Leave... I survey the wreckage... I shake my head in disbelief. -0-THE VOICE-0- _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From glotmorf@earthlink.net Sun, 18 Aug 2002 14:08:31 -0400 Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 14:08:31 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] damn... On 8/18/02 at 12:50 PM The Voice wrote: >I come back from Leave... > >I survey the wreckage... > >I shake my head in disbelief. Careful. This is a business forum. That there counted as three actions= against your entropy...:) Glotmorf From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Sun, 18 Aug 2002 15:55:12 -0400 Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 15:55:12 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Sin city, here I come! I go on leacve, with an expected return date of Aug 27, 2002. --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Sun, 18 Aug 2002 18:10:59 -0500 Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 18:10:59 -0500 From: Orc In A Spacesuit orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Re: [spoon-discuss] Too quiet, bd? >From: Wonko >In explorer, at least, that's a pain in the patooku to read - there's no >wrapping! Sorry; the best I can reccomend is copy and paste into Notepad or something. >The point I was trying to make is, what if we want people to be able to >exist in multiple physical regions at once? Remeber this rule defers to others? If you had a Region (a place with locations in it) named Wonko's Playground, and you want people to be in it as well as other places, all you need to say is "Players may occupy one Location in the Region "Wonko's Playground" in addition to any other Location(s) permitted by the rules. If a Player's Location is changed to a Location other than one in Wonko's Playground, it does not affect the Location in Wonko's Playground that e is in". Or just give everybody an(other) avatar that can only be in Wonko's Playground, and don't let anything else in. >>>Matrix Dodging is all-new, isn't it? >>Yup. >I would suggest, then, that you put it in another proposal. I'm not sure I >like it the way it's currently written, and I'd hate to have to vote >against your proposal just because there was one trivial bit that I didn't >want to pass. I thought about it, but since it messes with the Throw dynamics, I was going to try to include a neutered version (nobody can do it), and then just un-neuter it later with a prop, that way it's less messy. If you want me to, I'll remove it, but I would rather fix whatever you have a problem with, if it's possible. >Add randonimity then - incorporate Elbonia-Throwing? I can't Elbonia-Throw anything in the current rules. It only happens when I pay for myself, or something lands where it isn't supposed to, pretty much. Orc In A Spacesuit Current Status: Looking at Dodge-Matrix Style. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Sun, 18 Aug 2002 18:14:56 -0500 Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 18:14:56 -0500 From: Orc In A Spacesuit orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] damn... >From: "The Voice" >I come back from Leave... >I survey the wreckage... >I shake my head in disbelief. > >-0-THE VOICE-0- Welcome back. If you read through it all, you should have a pretty good idea of what I'm up to. [[trying to repair the wreckage, and fend off future wreckages]] Oh, and I believe we are on the same football team (Crimson), along with someone else, versus Athena and two others. Orc In A Spacesuit _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Sun, 18 Aug 2002 20:43:47 -0400 Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 20:43:47 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] damn... >I come back from Leave... -[[Welcome back.]]- > >I survey the wreckage... -[[*looks downward sheepishly, digs toe in ground*]]- > >I shake my head in disbelief. -[[*points finger at bd* E started it!]]- > > >-0-THE VOICE-0- > [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Sun, 18 Aug 2002 20:47:54 -0400 Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 20:47:54 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] damn... >Welcome back. If you read through it all, you should have a pretty good >idea of what I'm up to. [[trying to repair the wreckage, and fend off >future wreckages]] > >Oh, and I believe we are on the same football team (Crimson), along with >someone else, versus Athena and two others. > >Orc In A Spacesuit > -[[I think I'm the one on Crimson with you two. If not:]] I join Team "Crimson."- [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From nomicvoice0@hotmail.com Sun, 18 Aug 2002 21:18:59 -0400 Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 21:18:59 -0400 From: The Voice nomicvoice0@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] ok Alright, I'm all subscribed up now. I didn't have this right to begin with, so now it should work. It's good to be back, and rI didn't miss a vote! Welcome to Orc and Squire-- you've found yourselves smack in the middle of the most exciting Nomic this side of anywhere! I do what I meant to do a while ago and join the Mentor pool. -0-THE VOICE-0- _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Sun, 18 Aug 2002 21:58:16 -0400 Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 21:58:16 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] ok >Alright, I'm all subscribed up now. I didn't have this right to begin >with, so now it should work. It's good to be back, and rI didn't miss a >vote! -[[Eh, you could have come back a week from now and you'd still have not missed it...]]- > >Welcome to Orc and Squire-- you've found yourselves smack in the middle of >the most exciting Nomic this side of anywhere! -[[Most exciting, nuttiest, least sensible, and second most chaotic.]]- > >I do what I meant to do a while ago and join the Mentor pool. > >-0-THE VOICE-0- > [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From glotmorf@earthlink.net Sun, 18 Aug 2002 23:31:33 -0400 Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 23:31:33 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] ok On 8/18/02 at 9:58 PM Baron von Skippy wrote: >>Welcome to Orc and Squire-- you've found yourselves smack in the middle >of >>the most exciting Nomic this side of anywhere! >-[[Most exciting, nuttiest, least sensible, and second most chaotic.]]- Well, there are candidates for some of those individually...collectively,= I'm not so sure... Nomopoly I'd rate as chaotic. Nuttiest...I forget if it was a Masonic or= Rosicrucian Nomic, that featured secret wisdom and layered dogma. Most= exciting...I saw a reference to something called Nomic: the Masquerade;= dead now, but...for how long? I might go with least sensible, though. Hell, I'll even take partial= credit. Glotmorf From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Mon, 19 Aug 2002 01:37:10 -0400 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 01:37:10 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] ok > >>Welcome to Orc and Squire-- you've found yourselves smack in the middle > >of > >>the most exciting Nomic this side of anywhere! > >-[[Most exciting, nuttiest, least sensible, and second most chaotic.]]- > >Well, there are candidates for some of those individually...collectively, >I'm not so sure... > >Nomopoly I'd rate as chaotic. Nuttiest...I forget if it was a Masonic or >Rosicrucian Nomic, that featured secret wisdom and layered dogma. Most >exciting...I saw a reference to something called Nomic: the Masquerade; >dead now, but...for how long? > >I might go with least sensible, though. Hell, I'll even take partial >credit. > > Glotmorf > -[[Unless any of those are still alive, I'd say my statement stands. You're right, the ones I recognize of that list are indeed more so that than this (or something like that), but they ended or faded a while ago. This game, on the other hand, keeps proving rather resiliant in the face of nweekly bouts of "ooh, what does THIS do?" syndrome...]]- [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From glotmorf@earthlink.net Mon, 19 Aug 2002 09:23:18 -0400 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 09:23:18 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Stop me before it's too late... I have had a vision. Imagine a city, perhaps the size of Manhattan, with office buildings,= stores, tenements, and perhaps even boroughs and subways. Imagine the rules to a Nomic game are businesses of varying sizes= (depending on the size and/or complexity of the rule), with offices in the= city. Imagine the tradable items in the game are available in the stores. Imagine entities have homes in the tenements. Now imagine editing the rules by breaking into the rules' offices and= trashing them. Changing the availability of items by robbing,= vandalizing, running protection rackets on or even buying the stores.= Players can be spied on, and possibly robbed, by black-bag operations at= their homes. You don't necessarily know that a given rule has a given office. The= business that represents the rule may have a name, a mission, a= product/service line, etc. that hints at the rule, but nothing anywhere= says Rule 15 is in Suite 215 at 5th and 47th. And there are other= businesses that serve as red herrings, including ones that seem to compete= with the actual rule businesses. Possibly you can start businesses like= that to throw off other players. And businesses may move around as their= office space needs change. Nuking the city Just Isn't Allowed. Is this as off the wall as it sounds to me? Is it desirable? Is it even= possible? Has it...been done? Glotmorf From nomicvoice0@hotmail.com Mon, 19 Aug 2002 09:57:22 -0400 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 09:57:22 -0400 From: The Voice nomicvoice0@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Stop me before it's too late... >From: "Glotmorf" >I have had a vision. > Oh crap... >Imagine a city, perhaps the size of Manhattan, with office buildings, >stores, tenements, and perhaps even boroughs and subways. > >Imagine the rules to a Nomic game are businesses of varying sizes >(depending on the size and/or complexity of the rule), with offices in the >city. > >Imagine the tradable items in the game are available in the stores. > >Imagine entities have homes in the tenements. > >Now imagine editing the rules by breaking into the rules' offices and >trashing them. Changing the availability of items by robbing, vandalizing, >running protection rackets on or even buying the stores. Players can be >spied on, and possibly robbed, by black-bag operations at their homes. > >You don't necessarily know that a given rule has a given office. The >business that represents the rule may have a name, a mission, a >product/service line, etc. that hints at the rule, but nothing anywhere >says Rule 15 is in Suite 215 at 5th and 47th. And there are other >businesses that serve as red herrings, including ones that seem to compete >with the actual rule businesses. Possibly you can start businesses like >that to throw off other players. And businesses may move around as their >office space needs change. > >Nuking the city Just Isn't Allowed. > >Is this as off the wall as it sounds to me? Is it desirable? Is it even >possible? Has it...been done? > > Glotmorf > You have stumbled upon an interesting idea, Mr. Morf. Now the question is, can it work? I don't think it's been done, so if you want to be first, I suggest you get of your "Rock On Top Of A Mountain Where I Sit To Get Visions (TM)" and actually get out and do it. Or at least, do it somewhere else. This game is complicated enough. :) -0-THE VOICE-0- _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Mon, 19 Aug 2002 21:25:40 -0400 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 21:25:40 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Slipping in under the wire [[What does that mean, anyway? What wire? Feh. Okay, if it isn't too late to make rule alterations, I make the following one:]] To my "proposal" with ass kick shields, add: "If a "player" has an "Anal" Bum "Cover" in eir "possession" and they do not have an "Anal" Bum "Cover" on, they put on an "Anal" Bum "Cover" that they have in eir "possession."" Then take out all "quotation" marks in that "proposal." [[You know, about all these Entropy restrictions are doing is making lots of money for the punctuation factory...]] [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From glotmorf@earthlink.net Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:53:00 -0400 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:53:00 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Slipping in under the wire On 8/19/02 at 9:25 PM Baron von Skippy wrote: >[[What does that mean, anyway? What wire? Feh. Okay, if it isn't too late >to >make rule alterations, I make the following one:]] > >To my "proposal" with ass kick shields, add: > >"If a "player" has an "Anal" Bum "Cover" in eir "possession" and they do >not >have an "Anal" Bum "Cover" on, they put on an "Anal" Bum "Cover" that they= >have in eir "possession."" > >Then take out all "quotation" marks in that "proposal." > >[[You know, about all these Entropy restrictions are doing is making lots >of >money for the punctuation factory...]] Gonna call you on this one, son. Where are you quoting that word preceding= "bum" from? Glotmorf From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Tue, 20 Aug 2002 00:20:21 -0400 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 00:20:21 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Slipping in under the wire > >[[What does that mean, anyway? What wire? Feh. Okay, if it isn't too late > >to > >make rule alterations, I make the following one:]] > > > >To my "proposal" with ass kick shields, add: > > > >"If a "player" has an "Anal" Bum "Cover" in eir "possession" and they do > >not > >have an "Anal" Bum "Cover" on, they put on an "Anal" Bum "Cover" that >they > >have in eir "possession."" > > > >Then take out all "quotation" marks in that "proposal." > > > >[[You know, about all these Entropy restrictions are doing is making lots > >of > >money for the punctuation factory...]] > >Gonna call you on this one, son. Where are you quoting that word preceding >"bum" from? > > Glotmorf > > -[[Damn. Sorry, forgot that I can't quote my own messages. Bugger. Um, I apply Wonko's logic (whatever the hell THAT was) and state that the restrictions don't exist.]]- [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Fri, 16 Aug 2002 00:56:24 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 00:56:24 -0500 From: Orc In A Spacesuit orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] To everyone, I hope This is hopefully to everyone, whether or not you are on the new public forum or not. The new public forum, which can be found at http://www.ysolde.ucam.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bnomic-private , has been in use for quite a while. On it, Dave has already stated business (including "whoever made 1000 CFI's is going to get it in the nutsack", or something like that, and issued a Writ of Delay). bd and I have also conducted various business on it, well before Wonko, BvS, and Glotmorf found out about it. If you want a complete list of posts on one page, go to http://www.ysolde.ucam.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bnomic-private . I will be posting a summary of everything that still matters soon. Orc In A Spacesuit Current Status: Trying to sort this game out. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Wed, 21 Aug 2002 16:41:27 +0100 Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 16:41:27 +0100 From: Jonathan David Amery jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] Synopsis bd wrote: > mmm... MUD nomic... I thought about this once and concluded that it was too > much work. Maybe when we have self-programming computers. NomicWorld was a MUD... WC. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Wed, 21 Aug 2002 16:49:05 +0100 Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 16:49:05 +0100 From: Jonathan David Amery jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] Double posting > On 8/16/02 at 1:55 PM Orc In A Spacesuit wrote: > > >Oh, and who is the administrator for this list? > > Wild Card, no? > Yes. WC. (gah, real-life intrudes...) From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:02:46 +0100 Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:02:46 +0100 From: Jonathan David Amery jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] Double posting I wrote: > > On 8/16/02 at 1:55 PM Orc In A Spacesuit wrote: > > > > >Oh, and who is the administrator for this list? > > > > Wild Card, no? > > > Yes. > > WC. (gah, real-life intrudes...) > There's aa Bnomic-Public as well, you know (I think I advertised it to the old list before it went away)... Having caught up on my email, can anyone tell me of any grid actions I haven't acked? Mithrandir did some when he joined, and I haven't moved Curt & Rod this week... WC. From dave@technopagan.org Wed, 21 Aug 2002 22:07:05 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 22:07:05 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] it's all gone to HELL I issue, retroactively, and in blatant defiance of "Thou Shalt Not Screw With Time," Writs of Delay, one per day for every day of the past week (not nweek). I've moved again, I'm on a dialup, I'm broke, I'm homeless, I'm hungry, I'm pissed. I've got things on my mind right now that I consider to be far more important than this game (apologies to Glotmorf, who seems to either have a slavish devotion or WAY too much time on eir hands :). ...dave ---- David E. Smith (Currently homeless in Illinois) http://www.technopagan.org/ http://metadave.net/ http://www.bureau42.com/ http://whatIsay.com/ From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Wed, 21 Aug 2002 23:39:16 +0100 Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 23:39:16 +0100 From: Jonathan David Amery jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] it's all gone to HELL dave wrote: > I've moved again, I'm on a dialup, I'm broke, I'm homeless, I'm hungry, > I'm pissed. Gah, doom.... :( *sympathy* WC. From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Wed, 21 Aug 2002 23:21:25 -0400 Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 23:21:25 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Stop me before it's too late... Quoth Glotmorf, > I have had a vision. > > Imagine a city, perhaps the size of Manhattan, with office buildings, stores, > tenements, and perhaps even boroughs and subways. > > Imagine the rules to a Nomic game are businesses of varying sizes (depending > on the size and/or complexity of the rule), with offices in the city. > > Imagine the tradable items in the game are available in the stores. > > Imagine entities have homes in the tenements. > > Now imagine editing the rules by breaking into the rules' offices and trashing > them. Changing the availability of items by robbing, vandalizing, running > protection rackets on or even buying the stores. Players can be spied on, and > possibly robbed, by black-bag operations at their homes. > > You don't necessarily know that a given rule has a given office. The business > that represents the rule may have a name, a mission, a product/service line, > etc. that hints at the rule, but nothing anywhere says Rule 15 is in Suite 215 > at 5th and 47th. And there are other businesses that serve as red herrings, > including ones that seem to compete with the actual rule businesses. Possibly > you can start businesses like that to throw off other players. And businesses > may move around as their office space needs change. > > Nuking the city Just Isn't Allowed. > > Is this as off the wall as it sounds to me? Is it desirable? Is it even > possible? Has it...been done? Off the wall? Yes, but so what? You should hear some of the ideas I've had for Nomic Games (one of which involved 24 or more seperate rulesets) Desirable? Not in this game. But maybe, when it's all over, we can start again like that... Possible? You'd need a really good admin, maybe even two or three, just to keep track of where everything is. Ministries would often be hard to do - so much knowledge is known only to the admins, the Ministers would often have to make multiple queries for info in order to do anything. But it could be done. Been Done? Frankly, outside of your message and some crazed speculations I had back when the Grid was first developed, I've never seen ANY mention of rules even having physical locations. I'm almost certain that it's never been done. Just out of curiosity, has there ever been a game run by multiple admins before? -- Wonko From mhaywood383@hotmail.com Wed, 21 Aug 2002 21:21:13 -0400 Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 21:21:13 -0400 From: Mark Haywood mhaywood383@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Double posting > > > On 8/16/02 at 1:55 PM Orc In A Spacesuit wrote: > > > > > > >Oh, and who is the administrator for this list? > > > > > > Wild Card, no? > > > > > Yes. > > > > WC. (gah, real-life intrudes...) > > > > There's aa Bnomic-Public as well, you know (I think I advertised it >to the old list before it went away)... > > Having caught up on my email, can anyone tell me of any grid actions >I haven't acked? > > Mithrandir did some when he joined, and I haven't moved Curt & Rod >this week... > > WC. > I did do some, but I can't remember what they were. ________________________________________________________________________ Mithrandir _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Wed, 21 Aug 2002 21:38:31 -0400 Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 21:38:31 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] it's all gone to HELL >I issue, retroactively, and in blatant defiance of "Thou Shalt Not Screw >With Time," Writs of Delay, one per day for every day of the past week >(not nweek). -[[Do the rules say you're subject to them?]]- > >I've moved again, I'm on a dialup, I'm broke, I'm homeless, I'm hungry, >I'm pissed. I've got things on my mind right now that I consider to be far >more important than this game (apologies to Glotmorf, who seems to either >have a slavish devotion or WAY too much time on eir hands :). -[[We need to get that whole thing about Respecting the Admin worked out...]]- > >...dave [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Wed, 21 Aug 2002 22:46:50 -0400 Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 22:46:50 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] ok Quoth Glotmorf, > On 8/18/02 at 9:58 PM Baron von Skippy wrote: > >>> Welcome to Orc and Squire-- you've found yourselves smack in the middle >> of >>> the most exciting Nomic this side of anywhere! >> -[[Most exciting, nuttiest, least sensible, and second most chaotic.]]- > > Well, there are candidates for some of those individually...collectively, I'm > not so sure... > > Nomopoly I'd rate as chaotic. Nuttiest...I forget if it was a Masonic or > Rosicrucian Nomic, that featured secret wisdom and layered dogma. Most > exciting...I saw a reference to something called Nomic: the Masquerade; dead > now, but...for how long? > > I might go with least sensible, though. Hell, I'll even take partial credit. > I'd rate FRC as the most chaotic - anything where anyone can change the rules just by saying so has to get that. Nuttiest I'd give to the Nomicrucians for their rules such as : *All new initiates must wear a different colored sock on each foot for a period of forty days. *November 23 shall now be known as "Invite A Stranger To Bathe" Day. *No one may quote from the classic Japanese film "Tokyo Decadence" before 12:00 A.M. PST. in any conversation. *The phrase "Mysteries of the Universe" should always be typed in capitalized letters. *Fruit with the letters y or s in the name shall not be consumed on any Thursdays or Sundays nor on the first Monday after the full moon. Exciting, now, there's a tough category. I'm tempted to agree with Glotmorf on this one, though I haven't found enough records from Nomic: the Masquerade to know for sure, but on the grounds that it's based on Vampire, and the grounds that Imperial Nomic is always more exciting (well, almost always), I'd nominate it as well. Least sensible goes to the face game I played last year. -- Wonko From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Thu, 22 Aug 2002 00:52:50 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 00:52:50 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Cont: Immutable rule {{ __Mutations BAD! Krunk smash!__ Amend rule 33 to read as follows: {{ Each Rule has an attribute called Chutzpah, which is a positive integer. In the event of a conflict between two or more rules, if this rule is one, it takes precedence. Otherwise, the rule with the highest Chutzpah takes precedence. If two or more rules have equal Chutzpah, the rule with the lowest identification number takes precedence. If at least one of the rules in conflict explicity says of itself that it defers to another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the Chutzpah method for determining precedence. If two or more rules claim to take precedence over each other or to defer to one another, then the Chutzpah method again governs. Whenever one section of a rule conflicts with another section of the same rule, the section which appears later in the rule takes precedence over the earlier section. This rule may not be repealed or amended. }} Create the following CFI: {{ Statement: Rule 33 may not be repealed or amended, EVER. }} Rule the preceding CFI TRUE. Appeal the preceding CFI. Rule the preceding CFI TRUE. }} -- bd The above == my from field. Duh. -[[Does it count as amending to change the serial number? I don't think so. The serial number is there for reference. It's like how the name on a file folder tab isn't part of the stuff in the folder. Therefore: {{ __Immutable my ass__ Change Rule 33's serial number to 100. Change Rule 10's serial number to 33. [[To stop uin-like ruleset breaking]] Repeal Rule 100. }} ]]- -BvS- [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From glotmorf@earthlink.net Thu, 22 Aug 2002 01:58:50 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 01:58:50 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] it's all gone to HELL On 8/21/02 at 10:07 PM David E. Smith wrote: >I issue, retroactively, and in blatant defiance of "Thou Shalt Not Screw >With Time," Writs of Delay, one per day for every day of the past week >(not nweek). > >I've moved again, I'm on a dialup, I'm broke, I'm homeless, I'm hungry, >I'm pissed. I've got things on my mind right now that I consider to be far >more important than this game (apologies to Glotmorf, who seems to either >have a slavish devotion or WAY too much time on eir hands :). Combination of the two. Though I admit I'm finding other things to= slavishly devote to these days. Care to elaborate on any of your items? Glotmorf From glotmorf@earthlink.net Thu, 22 Aug 2002 02:19:04 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 02:19:04 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Stop me before it's too late... On 8/21/02 at 11:21 PM Wonko wrote: >Quoth Glotmorf, > >> I have had a vision. >> >> Imagine a city, perhaps the size of Manhattan, with office buildings, >stores, >> tenements, and perhaps even boroughs and subways. >> >> Imagine the rules to a Nomic game are businesses of varying sizes >(depending >> on the size and/or complexity of the rule), with offices in the city. >> >> Imagine the tradable items in the game are available in the stores. >> >> Imagine entities have homes in the tenements. >> >> Now imagine editing the rules by breaking into the rules' offices and >trashing >> them. Changing the availability of items by robbing, vandalizing, >running >> protection rackets on or even buying the stores. Players can be spied >on, and >> possibly robbed, by black-bag operations at their homes. >> >> You don't necessarily know that a given rule has a given office. The >business >> that represents the rule may have a name, a mission, a product/service >line, >> etc. that hints at the rule, but nothing anywhere says Rule 15 is in >Suite 215 >> at 5th and 47th. And there are other businesses that serve as red >herrings, >> including ones that seem to compete with the actual rule businesses. >Possibly >> you can start businesses like that to throw off other players. And >businesses >> may move around as their office space needs change. >> >> Nuking the city Just Isn't Allowed. >> >> Is this as off the wall as it sounds to me? Is it desirable? Is it= even >> possible? Has it...been done? > >Off the wall? >Yes, but so what? You should hear some of the ideas I've had for Nomic >Games >(one of which involved 24 or more seperate rulesets) > >Desirable? >Not in this game. But maybe, when it's all over, we can start again like >that... > >Possible? >You'd need a really good admin, maybe even two or three, just to keep= track >of where everything is. Ministries would often be hard to do - so much >knowledge is known only to the admins, the Ministers would often have to >make multiple queries for info in order to do anything. But it could be >done. > >Been Done? >Frankly, outside of your message and some crazed speculations I had back >when the Grid was first developed, I've never seen ANY mention of rules >even >having physical locations. I'm almost certain that it's never been done. Wow. An original Nomic idea. :) I'll post it to the BB and see if it's= truly unique. It's not just physical locations, BTW. Think physical manifestations.= Imagine, for example, that the Gremlin rule was, say, an employment= agency or a theatrical agent. That the Grid rule was the city planner's= office, a mapmaking company or a realtor. That the voting rule was a= government office, a consumer survey company or the local office of the= ACLU. I daresay we're taling massive. It might actually be easier to find, say,= some existing and viable MORPG somewhere and do the parasite thang. >Just out of curiosity, has there ever been a game run by multiple admins >before? Possibly the Rosicrucian Nomic. I think it had a High Priest and a High= Priestess. Glotmorf From glotmorf@earthlink.net Thu, 22 Aug 2002 02:26:04 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 02:26:04 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Stop me before it's too late... On 8/22/02 at 2:19 AM Glotmorf wrote: >Wow. An original Nomic idea. :) I'll post it to the BB and see if it's >truly unique. *sigh* I forgot. Joel's machine IS the BB. Ah well... Glotmorf From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:55:42 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:55:42 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Stop me before it's too late... Quoth Glotmorf, > On 8/21/02 at 11:21 PM Wonko wrote: > >> Quoth Glotmorf, >> >>> I have had a vision. >>> >>> Imagine a city, perhaps the size of Manhattan, with office buildings, >> stores, >>> tenements, and perhaps even boroughs and subways. >>> >>> Imagine the rules to a Nomic game are businesses of varying sizes >> (depending >>> on the size and/or complexity of the rule), with offices in the city. >>> >>> Imagine the tradable items in the game are available in the stores. >>> >>> Imagine entities have homes in the tenements. >>> >>> Now imagine editing the rules by breaking into the rules' offices and >> trashing >>> them. Changing the availability of items by robbing, vandalizing, >> running >>> protection rackets on or even buying the stores. Players can be spied >> on, and >>> possibly robbed, by black-bag operations at their homes. >>> >>> You don't necessarily know that a given rule has a given office. The >> business >>> that represents the rule may have a name, a mission, a product/service >> line, >>> etc. that hints at the rule, but nothing anywhere says Rule 15 is in >> Suite 215 >>> at 5th and 47th. And there are other businesses that serve as red >> herrings, >>> including ones that seem to compete with the actual rule businesses. >> Possibly >>> you can start businesses like that to throw off other players. And >> businesses >>> may move around as their office space needs change. >>> >>> Nuking the city Just Isn't Allowed. >>> >>> Is this as off the wall as it sounds to me? Is it desirable? Is it even >>> possible? Has it...been done? >> >> Off the wall? >> Yes, but so what? You should hear some of the ideas I've had for Nomic >> Games >> (one of which involved 24 or more seperate rulesets) >> >> Desirable? >> Not in this game. But maybe, when it's all over, we can start again like >> that... >> >> Possible? >> You'd need a really good admin, maybe even two or three, just to keep track >> of where everything is. Ministries would often be hard to do - so much >> knowledge is known only to the admins, the Ministers would often have to >> make multiple queries for info in order to do anything. But it could be >> done. >> >> Been Done? >> Frankly, outside of your message and some crazed speculations I had back >> when the Grid was first developed, I've never seen ANY mention of rules >> even >> having physical locations. I'm almost certain that it's never been done. > > Wow. An original Nomic idea. :) I'll post it to the BB and see if it's truly > unique. > > It's not just physical locations, BTW. Think physical manifestations. > Imagine, for example, that the Gremlin rule was, say, an employment agency or > a theatrical agent. That the Grid rule was the city planner's office, a > mapmaking company or a realtor. That the voting rule was a government office, > a consumer survey company or the local office of the ACLU. But nobody knows which companies are which until they break in and see... Ooo, and if you can find the rule that says you can't change the rules without finding them, you could change it to let you (and only you) change any rule at will... I would say that if you plan on a Nomic in which rules have such physical manifestations, it'd be far better (and easier) to make it a MUD Nomic. > I daresay we're taling massive. It might actually be easier to find, say, > some existing and viable MORPG somewhere and do the parasite thang. > I don't believe I've ever come across the acronym MORPG before... what is that? -- Wonko From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:05:54 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:05:54 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] it's all gone to HELL Quoth Baron von Skippy, >> I issue, retroactively, and in blatant defiance of "Thou Shalt Not Screw >> With Time," Writs of Delay, one per day for every day of the past week >> (not nweek). > -[[Do the rules say you're subject to them?]]- The rules say that everyone's subject to them, but I'm not about to object to the admin's actions. And if nobody objects, the Statute of Limitations brings the game back to where it would be if it had been legal. Wheee! And if anyone does object, I will personally propose to kick the shit out of them. >> I've moved again, I'm on a dialup, I'm broke, I'm homeless, I'm hungry, >> I'm pissed. I've got things on my mind right now that I consider to be far >> more important than this game (apologies to Glotmorf, who seems to either >> have a slavish devotion or WAY too much time on eir hands :). > -[[We need to get that whole thing about Respecting the Admin worked > out...]]- Don't we have it worked out? I mean, it's not actually written in the ruleset anywhere, but that doesn't mean we can't have respect for the admin anyway. I have tremendous respect for Dave - he's kept the game running all this time despite the ever-increasing complexity of the ruleset, and I don't think any of the rest of us could do that half as well as Dave does. Sure, r0 says we can deal with the sudden abscence of our admin, but I really don't think we could - none of us could do what Dave does. Don't get me wrong - I'm not belittling all us players, but the things Dave has done to keep this game going are frankly astounding. We don't need the ruleset to tell us to respect em. We already do. -- Wonko From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:07:10 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:07:10 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] it's all gone to HELL Quoth Glotmorf, > On 8/21/02 at 10:07 PM David E. Smith wrote: > >> I issue, retroactively, and in blatant defiance of "Thou Shalt Not Screw >> With Time," Writs of Delay, one per day for every day of the past week >> (not nweek). >> >> I've moved again, I'm on a dialup, I'm broke, I'm homeless, I'm hungry, >> I'm pissed. I've got things on my mind right now that I consider to be far >> more important than this game (apologies to Glotmorf, who seems to either >> have a slavish devotion or WAY too much time on eir hands :). > > Combination of the two. Though I admit I'm finding other things to slavishly > devote to these days. You mean like the fight against Mildew? ;) You know, Dave, you could just call a Road Trip, then undesignate Bnomic-Private as a pubilc forum. Then you wouldn't have to worry about the game at all, 'cause the game wouldn't happen 'til you had time to make it happen again. -- Wonko From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:11:11 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:11:11 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Discussion As WC said, there is a bnomic-public mailing list as well. Go to: http://www.ysolde.ucam.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bnomic-public to subscribe to it. We can discuss over that, then. -- Wonko From glotmorf@earthlink.net Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:30:45 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:30:45 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Stop me before it's too late... On 8/22/02 at 8:55 AM Wonko wrote: >Quoth Glotmorf, > >> It's not just physical locations, BTW. Think physical manifestations. >> Imagine, for example, that the Gremlin rule was, say, an employment >agency or >> a theatrical agent. That the Grid rule was the city planner's office, a >> mapmaking company or a realtor. That the voting rule was a government >office, >> a consumer survey company or the local office of the ACLU. > >But nobody knows which companies are which until they break in and see... >Ooo, and if you can find the rule that says you can't change the rules >without finding them, you could change it to let you (and only you) change >any rule at will... > >I would say that if you plan on a Nomic in which rules have such physical >manifestations, it'd be far better (and easier) to make it a MUD Nomic. > >> I daresay we're taling massive. It might actually be easier to find, >say, >> some existing and viable MORPG somewhere and do the parasite thang. >> > >I don't believe I've ever come across the acronym MORPG before... what is >that? It's actually more often MMORPG -- Massively Multiplayer Online RolePlaying= Game. Ultima Online, Everquest, Mankind, etc. Aside from the commercial= ones, there are also some private, small-press games operating and under= development. Then there's things like Neverwinter Nights that allow one= to build one's own realm and attach it to the hub. Okay, so far they're graphic MUDs. Or MUXs, if you allow the players to= build their own stuff. But at least if there's a gaming environment that= supports the existence of the buildings, that's one less thing an admin= would have to do... Glotmorf From dave@technopagan.org Thu, 22 Aug 2002 03:59:51 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 03:59:51 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] sigh I'm still here. I found out that I'd missed large parts of the database when I was doing my last-minute backup, and the last full backup I have from before that is from the beginning of the nweek. So until Joel gets settled in wherever he's gotten off to, we're still basically frozen in time, under whichever rule it is that requires everything on the ballot to be publicly displayed. Which works out well because I've got bigger things to worry about. I'm going to be blunt, folks. My personal life is pretty well falling apart. I'm not actually homeless, but my housing situation is rather tenuous indeed at this point. I've driven about five thousand miles in the past couple weeks. (The sordid details will soon be posted at metadave.net.) As I may have mentioned, I'm tired, I'm hungry, and I'm very cranky indeed. I've never done something like this before, so feel free to laugh (or forfeit the Nomic, as you see fit), but I'm screwed and I could use your help. If the many hours I've put into this game have provided you with even a little amusement, and you have a dollar or two that you can spare, and a PayPal account, well, you can finish the sentence. The game will go on, either way, as soon as Joel gets nomic.net back online, but this earns you my undying gratitude -- which just might be more valuable than B Nomic Shillings, the way the economy's going these days. Anything collected in excess of my immediate needs (basically, lunch and maybe gas for the car) will be saved for future nifty stuff, like maybe buying "bnomic.org" or something and giving players bnomic.org email addresses. I'll get down from my whiny bitchy soapbox now. ...dave From squire_of_dimness@sbcglobal.net Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:51:38 -0500 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:51:38 -0500 From: Joshua Caudle squire_of_dimness@sbcglobal.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] it's all gone to HELL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wonko" To: Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [Bnomic-private] it's all gone to HELL > Quoth Glotmorf, > > > On 8/21/02 at 10:07 PM David E. Smith wrote: > > > >> I issue, retroactively, and in blatant defiance of "Thou Shalt Not Screw > >> With Time," Writs of Delay, one per day for every day of the past week > >> (not nweek). > >> > >> I've moved again, I'm on a dialup, I'm broke, I'm homeless, I'm hungry, > >> I'm pissed. I've got things on my mind right now that I consider to be far > >> more important than this game (apologies to Glotmorf, who seems to either > >> have a slavish devotion or WAY too much time on eir hands :). > > > > Combination of the two. Though I admit I'm finding other things to slavishly > > devote to these days. > > You mean like the fight against Mildew? ;) > > You know, Dave, you could just call a Road Trip, then undesignate > Bnomic-Private as a pubilc forum. Then you wouldn't have to worry about the > game at all, 'cause the game wouldn't happen 'til you had time to make it > happen again. > Well unfortunately roadtrip repealed itself after he called "holy shit, I made it" in the last public forum. thusly we could call for emergency status until everything gets itself back together... not a pleasent idea but it might just work well enough to get everything back on it's feet again... rather than dave having to call for a writ of delay every two day or so retroactively... becasue we definitely qualify for a state of emergency... it's been more than 7 days since joel went off line... any comments??? -Squire (hoping this will take some of the pressure off of dave for a while) From dave@technopagan.org Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:52:06 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:52:06 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] it's all gone to HELL On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Wonko wrote: > You know, Dave, you could just call a Road Trip, then undesignate > Bnomic-Private as a pubilc forum. Then you wouldn't have to worry about the > game at all, 'cause the game wouldn't happen 'til you had time to make it > happen again. No, actually, I can't. I obviously didn't anticipate the nasty car crash in which my father was involved, so the Road Trip rule was a self-repealing one-shot. ...dave From dave@technopagan.org Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:09:44 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:09:44 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] it's all gone to HELL On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Joshua Caudle wrote: > Well unfortunately roadtrip repealed itself after he called "holy shit, I > made it" in the last public forum. thusly we could call for emergency status > until everything gets itself back together... not a pleasent idea but it > might just work well enough to get everything back on it's feet again... Since the outage was announced, I'm not entirely sure it qualifies as an Emergency. > -Squire (hoping this will take some of the pressure off of dave for a while) Can't be done. (This won't make sense to anyone but Squire: Tell the girls I'm fine, at least physically.) ...dave From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Fri, 23 Aug 2002 01:37:55 +0100 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 01:37:55 +0100 From: Jonathan David Amery jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] sigh > If the many hours I've put into this game have provided you with even a > little amusement, and you have a dollar or two that you can spare, and a > PayPal account, well, you can finish the sentence. It appears to be lots of hassle to actually add money to a PayPal account since I'm in the UK and have no credit-card, however if I read the site right, then if you recommend me and I join up then we both get $5 credited to our accounts, and I can then donate that to you. (assuming they give out the $5 bonus to international customers). WC. (sorry I can't be more helpful :-( ). From mhaywood383@hotmail.com Thu, 22 Aug 2002 21:45:45 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 21:45:45 -0400 From: Mark Haywood mhaywood383@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] sigh >I'm still here. > >I found out that I'd missed large parts of the database when I was doing >my last-minute backup, and the last full backup I have from before that is >from the beginning of the nweek. > >So until Joel gets settled in wherever he's gotten off to, we're still >basically frozen in time, under whichever rule it is that requires >everything on the ballot to be publicly displayed. > >Which works out well because I've got bigger things to worry about. > >I'm going to be blunt, folks. My personal life is pretty well falling >apart. I'm not actually homeless, but my housing situation is rather >tenuous indeed at this point. I've driven about five thousand miles in the >past couple weeks. (The sordid details will soon be posted at >metadave.net.) As I may have mentioned, I'm tired, I'm hungry, and I'm >very cranky indeed. > >I've never done something like this before, so feel free to laugh (or >forfeit the Nomic, as you see fit), but I'm screwed and I could use your >help. > >If the many hours I've put into this game have provided you with even a >little amusement, and you have a dollar or two that you can spare, and a >PayPal account, well, you can finish the sentence. > >The game will go on, either way, as soon as Joel gets nomic.net back >online, but this earns you my undying gratitude -- which just might be >more valuable than B Nomic Shillings, the way the economy's going these >days. > >Anything collected in excess of my immediate needs (basically, lunch and >maybe gas for the car) will be saved for future nifty stuff, like maybe >buying "bnomic.org" or something and giving players bnomic.org email >addresses. > >I'll get down from my whiny bitchy soapbox now. > >...dave > Is there any way in which someone else could temporarily become Administrator? Or can we pause (not freeze thanks to a loophole, but stop) the game for a bit? You're hardly being whiny or bitchy, you've clearly devoted countless hours to this, and you're entitled to say when things are not going well enough to allow you to continue doing so. ________________________________________________________________________ Mithrandir _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:28:08 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:28:08 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] it's all gone to HELL > >> I issue, retroactively, and in blatant defiance of "Thou Shalt Not >Screw > >> With Time," Writs of Delay, one per day for every day of the past week > >> (not nweek). > > -[[Do the rules say you're subject to them?]]- > >The rules say that everyone's subject to them, but I'm not about to object >to the admin's actions. And if nobody objects, the Statute of Limitations >brings the game back to where it would be if it had been legal. Wheee! -Damn, good, and good.- > >And if anyone does object, I will personally propose to kick the shit out >of >them. -[[Yeah... we're beyond KitA time. Anyone tries to screw this over gets kicked out of the Game... we'll find a way.]]- > > >> I've moved again, I'm on a dialup, I'm broke, I'm homeless, I'm hungry, > >> I'm pissed. I've got things on my mind right now that I consider to be >far > >> more important than this game (apologies to Glotmorf, who seems to >either > >> have a slavish devotion or WAY too much time on eir hands :). > > -[[We need to get that whole thing about Respecting the Admin worked > > out...]]- > >Don't we have it worked out? I mean, it's not actually written in the >ruleset anywhere, but that doesn't mean we can't have respect for the admin >anyway. I have tremendous respect for Dave - he's kept the game running all >this time despite the ever-increasing complexity of the ruleset, and I >don't >think any of the rest of us could do that half as well as Dave does. Sure, >r0 says we can deal with the sudden abscence of our admin, but I really >don't think we could - none of us could do what Dave does. Don't get me >wrong - I'm not belittling all us players, but the things Dave has done to >keep this game going are frankly astounding. > >We don't need the ruleset to tell us to respect em. We already do. -[[I think my point has been made, then.]]- > >-- >Wonko > [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:30:35 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:30:35 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] sigh >I'm still here. > >I found out that I'd missed large parts of the database when I was doing >my last-minute backup, and the last full backup I have from before that is >from the beginning of the nweek. > >So until Joel gets settled in wherever he's gotten off to, we're still >basically frozen in time, under whichever rule it is that requires >everything on the ballot to be publicly displayed. > >Which works out well because I've got bigger things to worry about. > >I'm going to be blunt, folks. My personal life is pretty well falling >apart. I'm not actually homeless, but my housing situation is rather >tenuous indeed at this point. I've driven about five thousand miles in the >past couple weeks. (The sordid details will soon be posted at >metadave.net.) As I may have mentioned, I'm tired, I'm hungry, and I'm >very cranky indeed. > >I've never done something like this before, so feel free to laugh (or >forfeit the Nomic, as you see fit), but I'm screwed and I could use your >help. > >If the many hours I've put into this game have provided you with even a >little amusement, and you have a dollar or two that you can spare, and a >PayPal account, well, you can finish the sentence. > >The game will go on, either way, as soon as Joel gets nomic.net back >online, but this earns you my undying gratitude -- which just might be >more valuable than B Nomic Shillings, the way the economy's going these >days. > >Anything collected in excess of my immediate needs (basically, lunch and >maybe gas for the car) will be saved for future nifty stuff, like maybe >buying "bnomic.org" or something and giving players bnomic.org email >addresses. > >I'll get down from my whiny bitchy soapbox now. > >...dave > -[[I really wish I could help you, but I don't have a PayPal account or an intent to create one. Sorry.]]- [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:37:12 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:37:12 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] it's all gone to HELL > > You know, Dave, you could just call a Road Trip, then undesignate > > Bnomic-Private as a pubilc forum. Then you wouldn't have to worry about >the > > game at all, 'cause the game wouldn't happen 'til you had time to make >it > > happen again. > >No, actually, I can't. I obviously didn't anticipate the nasty car crash >in which my father was involved, so the Road Trip rule was a >self-repealing one-shot. > >...dave > -[[Oh, damn. That's rough. I wish I could say things that didn't sound cliched... Good luck, Dave. May you get through this turbulent period and return to a normal life soon.]]- [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:42:26 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:42:26 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] sigh >Is there any way in which someone else could temporarily become >Administrator? Or can we pause (not freeze thanks to a loophole, but stop) >the game for a bit? You're hardly being whiny or bitchy, you've clearly >devoted countless hours to this, and you're entitled to say when things are >not going well enough to allow you to continue doing so. >________________________________________________________________________ >Mithrandir > -[[Well, we can use a different loophole... nothing not forbidden or regulated is permitted and unregulated... no one has ever tried this before, let's see if it works.]] I say the words "Dave the 'Administrator' needs a break, and the Game of B 'Nomic' must pause" and the Clock stops "until" Dave says the words "Let the Game 'resume'." Once e does so, this may not ever be used to stop the Game "again." [[Now, if no one says it's illegal, it's legal. I'm not sure if the Rules prohibit that or not. So let it slide, folks.]]- [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Fri, 23 Aug 2002 00:38:59 -0400 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 00:38:59 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] sigh Quoth Baron von Skippy, >> I'm still here. >> >> I found out that I'd missed large parts of the database when I was doing >> my last-minute backup, and the last full backup I have from before that is >> from the beginning of the nweek. >> >> So until Joel gets settled in wherever he's gotten off to, we're still >> basically frozen in time, under whichever rule it is that requires >> everything on the ballot to be publicly displayed. >> >> Which works out well because I've got bigger things to worry about. >> >> I'm going to be blunt, folks. My personal life is pretty well falling >> apart. I'm not actually homeless, but my housing situation is rather >> tenuous indeed at this point. I've driven about five thousand miles in the >> past couple weeks. (The sordid details will soon be posted at >> metadave.net.) As I may have mentioned, I'm tired, I'm hungry, and I'm >> very cranky indeed. >> >> I've never done something like this before, so feel free to laugh (or >> forfeit the Nomic, as you see fit), but I'm screwed and I could use your >> help. >> >> If the many hours I've put into this game have provided you with even a >> little amusement, and you have a dollar or two that you can spare, and a >> PayPal account, well, you can finish the sentence. >> >> The game will go on, either way, as soon as Joel gets nomic.net back >> online, but this earns you my undying gratitude -- which just might be >> more valuable than B Nomic Shillings, the way the economy's going these >> days. >> >> Anything collected in excess of my immediate needs (basically, lunch and >> maybe gas for the car) will be saved for future nifty stuff, like maybe >> buying "bnomic.org" or something and giving players bnomic.org email >> addresses. >> >> I'll get down from my whiny bitchy soapbox now. >> >> ...dave >> > -[[I really wish I could help you, but I don't have a PayPal account or an > intent to create one. Sorry.]]- > WC has a point, though - even those of us who can't create PayPal accounts can get Dave $10 each. With 13 or 14 players, that's at least a bit of food. Plus, if we can find a way to contact the dead players, I'll bet we could get another 10 people or so to chip in... -- Wonko From dave@technopagan.org Fri, 23 Aug 2002 04:36:40 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 04:36:40 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] sigh On Fri, 23 Aug 2002, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > It appears to be lots of hassle to actually add money to a PayPal > account since I'm in the UK and have no credit-card, however if I read > the site right, then if you recommend me and I join up then we both > get $5 credited to our accounts, and I can then donate that to you. > (assuming they give out the $5 bonus to international customers). First off, I shouldn't have ranted in the way I ranted. I'd like to apologize to everyone for my inappropriate statements of earlier today. Anyway, it's not that easy by a long shot. The bonus only applies after you get some money in their system. Here's what you'd have to do (from their Web site): * Sign up for an international PayPal account * Confirm their email address * Add a credit card * Confirm their PayPal Membership * Send a single payment of at least $250 with their PayPal account (If you're based in the US, the requirements are pretty much the same, except the $250 can come from your checking account instead of a credit card.) ...dave From dave@technopagan.org Fri, 23 Aug 2002 04:59:11 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 04:59:11 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] in other news... If Joel can't get back online in the next week or so, I'll suggest we go for another one of those legendary States of Emergency. Here's the limitations and possible problems thereof: * I can get Web hosting, and I can move the B Nomic site around. I should be able to "piggyback" it onto one of my other sites, so it'll be effectively free. Maybe like a dollar a month. * I have a dump of the database as of a couple hours before Joel disappeared, which means the roster, ruleset, all recognized proposals, and the Grid will survive intact. * Anything maintained by a Ministry, on the Web server, disappeared. Fortunately, the ministers should have good backups for those things. The Gnome ministry should be in good hands, as its Minister was keeping eir own records anyway. The Gremlins and Bank records will be lost, but those are easy enough to fix -- just randomize the Gremlins, and fix the Bank (which desperately needs to be done anyway). The Insta-Ministry, well, it was on the same Web server, so I dunno what will become of it. I'm reading the Uber Prop now. This is fscking scary. Any attempt to use the Uber Prop in a Refresh Prop, should it come to that, will be met with my sledgehammer (the same one I'm using to club Mr. Thousand CFIs, and no, this isn't one of those big foam Triple H hammers, this one will be legit). (Re: the Uber Prop: I'd have to brush up on my JavaScript to do it exactly as diagrammed. It'd be trivial to do it as a couple separate forms (login, then action, then targets). Either way, though, it's scary.) ...dave ---- David E. Smith (Currently homeless in Oregon) http://www.technopagan.org/ http://metadave.net/ http://www.bureau42.com/ http://whatIsay.com/ From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Fri, 23 Aug 2002 08:41:30 +0100 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 08:41:30 +0100 From: Jonathan David Amery jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] sigh > Anyway, it's not that easy by a long shot. The bonus only applies after > you get some money in their system. Bah, and it all looked so easy last night. :-( I guess that there's not anything I could buy over here and mail? WC. From glotmorf@earthlink.net Fri, 23 Aug 2002 14:05:15 -0400 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 14:05:15 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] sigh On 8/23/02 at 8:41 AM Jonathan David Amery wrote: >> Anyway, it's not that easy by a long shot. The bonus only applies after >> you get some money in their system. > > Bah, and it all looked so easy last night. :-( > > I guess that there's not anything I could buy over here and mail? > > WC. International money orders? Travellers' cheques? If you were talking a= major contribution, you might look into a Citibank account -- they have= branches all over the world, so if one set up an account in one country,= someone in another country could deposit into it. As opposed to the= service charges of the first two, the charge would be the currency= conversion. Glotmorf From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Fri, 23 Aug 2002 19:13:25 +0100 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 19:13:25 +0100 From: Jonathan David Amery jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] sigh > On 8/23/02 at 8:41 AM Jonathan David Amery wrote: > > >> Anyway, it's not that easy by a long shot. The bonus only applies after > >> you get some money in their system. > > > > Bah, and it all looked so easy last night. :-( > > > > I guess that there's not anything I could buy over here and mail? > > > > WC. > > International money orders? Travellers' cheques? Travellers' cheques is a good idea. Dave - if I pop into town and spend (say) 50ukpounds on Travellers' cheques, could you email me a mailing address that I could send them to? J. From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Fri, 23 Aug 2002 20:15:33 +0100 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 20:15:33 +0100 From: Jonathan David Amery jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] sigh > major contribution, you might look into a Citibank account -- they have= > branches all over the world, so if one set up an account in one country,= > someone in another country could deposit into it. As opposed to the= > service charges of the first two, the charge would be the currency= > conversion. If I could afford that size contribution then I'd be able to afford the ridiculous charges that my bank charge to make payments into foreign accounts. Or to have a credit-card[1]. Unfortunatly, being newly-wed, my finances aren't up to that. :-( WC. [1] If I had a cc then I'd impulse buy too much - I never carry much cash around for this reason either. From dave@technopagan.org Fri, 23 Aug 2002 19:16:26 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 19:16:26 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] sigh On Fri, 23 Aug 2002, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > Dave - if I pop into town and spend (say) 50ukpounds on Travellers' > cheques, could you email me a mailing address that I could send them to? No, because I said "a dollar or two". 50 UKP right now is about $75. I certainly appreciate the thought, but that's far more than my immediate needs. The personal situation has calmed down somewhat... I've secured part-time employment, and managed to work out a system in which I stay with each relative for a few days, then move on to the next, eventually cycling back to the first relative in a couple weeks. Thus nobody is too annoyed (except for me ;) ...dave From glotmorf@earthlink.net Fri, 23 Aug 2002 21:34:19 -0400 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 21:34:19 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] sigh On 8/23/02 at 7:16 PM David E. Smith wrote: >No, because I said "a dollar or two". 50 UKP right now is about $75. Pounds are worth *less* than dollars? Gawd, I've been out of touch... Glotmorf From mhaywood383@hotmail.com Sat, 24 Aug 2002 20:55:42 -0400 Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 20:55:42 -0400 From: Mark Haywood mhaywood383@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] sigh > >No, because I said "a dollar or two". 50 UKP right now is about $75. > >Pounds are worth *less* than dollars? Gawd, I've been out of touch... > > Glotmorf Wouldn't that mean pounds are still worth more, if 50 pounds is $75? ________________________________________________________________________ Mithrandir _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From glotmorf@earthlink.net Sat, 24 Aug 2002 21:47:51 -0400 Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 21:47:51 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] sigh On 8/24/02 at 8:55 PM Mark Haywood wrote: >> >No, because I said "a dollar or two". 50 UKP right now is about $75. >> >>Pounds are worth *less* than dollars? Gawd, I've been out of touch... >> >> Glotmorf > >Wouldn't that mean pounds are still worth more, if 50 pounds is $75? Pounds are worth *more* than dollars? Gawd, I've been short on sleep... Glotmorf From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Mon, 26 Aug 2002 19:07:16 -0400 Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 19:07:16 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Discussion Forum Notice Looking at the list of subscribers to the Discussion Forum, I notice a number of people aren't there. This, then, is your notice that bnomic-public@ysolde.ucam.org is currently being used as a discussion forum by a number of the game's players. To subscribe, visit http://www.ysolde.ucam.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bnomic-public -- Wonko From dave@technopagan.org Tue, 27 Aug 2002 04:52:42 +0000 (GMT) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 04:52:42 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] This oughta stir up some discussion... ... or at least be a good way to kill some time. I propose that, if there's enough players around to do so, we initiate a State of Emergency. Just for the heck of it, mostly. Technically, Joel's been offline for well more than seven days, so we can get away with that sort of thing anyway. Here's the bare minimum refresh proposal: Make 5 random Gremlins Active; put all other Gremlins into Hiding. [[ Gremlin records were only on Joel's system and are presumed lost. ]] Remove all BNS from all players, then give 500 BNS to each player. Give the Bank (5,000,000 - (500 * number of players)) BNS. [[ Because it needs to be done anyway. ]] Reset the Clock to nweek 22, nday 8, and turn the Clock On. [[ I'll recognize, as best I can, stuff from the past couple weeks worth of emails, and then voting will start. This list will carry on as the Public Forum. ]] Discuss. :-) ...dave ---- David E. Smith (I don't even know where I am) http://www.technopagan.org/ http://metadave.net/ http://www.bureau42.com/ http://whatIsay.com/ From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Tue, 27 Aug 2002 01:31:39 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 01:31:39 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] This oughta stir up some discussion... Quoth David E. Smith, > ... or at least be a good way to kill some time. > > I propose that, if there's enough players around to do so, we initiate a > State of Emergency. Just for the heck of it, mostly. > > Technically, Joel's been offline for well more than seven days, so we can > get away with that sort of thing anyway. > > Here's the bare minimum refresh proposal: > > > Make 5 random Gremlins Active; put all other Gremlins into Hiding. > > [[ Gremlin records were only on Joel's system and are presumed lost. ]] > > Remove all BNS from all players, then give 500 BNS to each player. Give > the Bank (5,000,000 - (500 * number of players)) BNS. > > [[ Because it needs to be done anyway. ]] > > Reset the Clock to nweek 22, nday 8, and turn the Clock On. > > [[ I'll recognize, as best I can, stuff from the past couple weeks worth > of emails, and then voting will start. This list will carry on as the > Public Forum. ]] > > Discuss. :-) > A state of Emergency I do declare. Anyone know where Joel is? Here is my Refresh Prop, if an Emergency does happen: {{ Put all Gremlins into Hiding. Make 5 random Gremlins Active. [[We lost the Gremlin Records]] Put all Gnomes owned by players into eir Gnome Bags. [[We lost those Gnome Records, too]] Give all BNS from all players to the Bank. Give 500 BNS to each player. [[That's gone pretty screwy too, though I hate to lose my 5 mil or so]] Reset the Clock to nweek 22, nday 8, and turn the Clock On. }} -- Wonko [[ P.S. Why is Bnomic-private a public forum and bnomic-public a private forum? That seems counterintuitive; is that the only reason?]] From glotmorf@earthlink.net Tue, 27 Aug 2002 02:32:15 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 02:32:15 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] This oughta stir up some discussion... On 8/27/02 at 1:31 AM Wonko wrote: >Quoth David E. Smith, > >> ... or at least be a good way to kill some time. >> >> I propose that, if there's enough players around to do so, we initiate a >> State of Emergency. Just for the heck of it, mostly. >> >> Technically, Joel's been offline for well more than seven days, so we= can >> get away with that sort of thing anyway. >> >> Here's the bare minimum refresh proposal: >> >> >> Make 5 random Gremlins Active; put all other Gremlins into Hiding. >> >> [[ Gremlin records were only on Joel's system and are presumed lost. ]] >> >> Remove all BNS from all players, then give 500 BNS to each player. Give >> the Bank (5,000,000 - (500 * number of players)) BNS. >> >> [[ Because it needs to be done anyway. ]] >> >> Reset the Clock to nweek 22, nday 8, and turn the Clock On. >> >> [[ I'll recognize, as best I can, stuff from the past couple weeks worth >> of emails, and then voting will start. This list will carry on as the >> Public Forum. ]] >> >> Discuss. :-) >> > >A state of Emergency I do declare. Anyone know where Joel is? I consent to the declaration of a state of Emergency. >Here is my Refresh Prop, if an Emergency does happen: > >{{ >Put all Gremlins into Hiding. >Make 5 random Gremlins Active. > >[[We lost the Gremlin Records]] > >Put all Gnomes owned by players into eir Gnome Bags. > >[[We lost those Gnome Records, too]] > >Give all BNS from all players to the Bank. >Give 500 BNS to each player. > >[[That's gone pretty screwy too, though I hate to lose my 5 mil or so]] While we're at it, let's do stock too. And if we're cleaning up BNS and= stock, there's some proposals to review... Dave, do you have a current proposal list? >Reset the Clock to nweek 22, nday 8, and turn the Clock On. >}} > >-- >Wonko >[[ >P.S. Why is Bnomic-private a public forum and bnomic-public a private >forum? >That seems counterintuitive; is that the only reason?]] Cheap entertainment? Employment tip of the day: Never tell Mr. Security Officer, "Well, I get my= jollies where I can..." Glotmorf From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:40:35 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:40:35 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] damn... On Sunday 18 August 2002 08:43 pm, Baron von Skippy wrote: > >I come back from Leave... > > -[[Welcome back.]]- > > >I survey the wreckage... > > -[[*looks downward sheepishly, digs toe in ground*]]- > > >I shake my head in disbelief. > > -[[*points finger at bd* E started it!]]- [[ Who, me? ]] --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:41:09 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:41:09 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] ok On Sunday 18 August 2002 09:58 pm, Baron von Skippy wrote: > >Alright, I'm all subscribed up now. I didn't have this right to begin > >with, so now it should work. It's good to be back, and rI didn't miss= a > >vote! > > -[[Eh, you could have come back a week from now and you'd still have no= t > missed it...]]- > > >Welcome to Orc and Squire-- you've found yourselves smack in the middl= e of > >the most exciting Nomic this side of anywhere! > > -[[Most exciting, nuttiest, least sensible, and second most chaotic.]]- What's the most chaotic? --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:44:21 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:44:21 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] ok On Monday 19 August 2002 01:37 am, Baron von Skippy wrote: > > >>Welcome to Orc and Squire-- you've found yourselves smack in the mi= ddle > > > > > >of > > > > > >>the most exciting Nomic this side of anywhere! > > > > > >-[[Most exciting, nuttiest, least sensible, and second most chaotic.= ]]- > > > >Well, there are candidates for some of those individually...collective= ly, > >I'm not so sure... > > > >Nomopoly I'd rate as chaotic. Nuttiest...I forget if it was a Masonic= or > >Rosicrucian Nomic, that featured secret wisdom and layered dogma. Mos= t > >exciting...I saw a reference to something called Nomic: the Masquerade= ; > >dead now, but...for how long? > > > >I might go with least sensible, though. Hell, I'll even take partial > >credit. > > > >=09=09=09=09=09=09Glotmorf > > -[[Unless any of those are still alive, I'd say my statement stands. Yo= u're > right, the ones I recognize of that list are indeed more so that than t= his > (or something like that), but they ended or faded a while ago. This gam= e, > on the other hand, keeps proving rather resiliant in the face of nweekl= y > bouts of "ooh, what does THIS do?" syndrome...]]- [[ Don't tempt me. Just don't. ]] --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From nomicvoice0@hotmail.com Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:55:18 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:55:18 -0400 From: The Voice nomicvoice0@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] emergencies and such I recognize a state of emergency (TM). -0-THE VOICE-0- _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:02:14 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:02:14 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Cont: Immutable rule {{ __Mutations BAD! Krunk smash!__ Amend rule 33 to read as follows: {{ Each Rule has an attribute called Chutzpah, which is a positive integer. = In the event of a conflict between two or more rules, if this rule is one, i= t takes precedence. Otherwise, the rule with the highest Chutzpah takes precedence. If two or more rules have equal Chutzpah, the rule with the lowest identification number takes precedence. If at least one of the rules in conflict explicity says of itself that it defers to another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the Chutzpah method for determining precedence. If two or more rules claim to take precedence over each other or to defer= to one another, then the Chutzpah method again governs. Whenever one section of a rule conflicts with another section of the same rule, the section which appears later in the rule takes precedence over t= he earlier section. This rule may not be repealed or amended. }} Create the following CFI: {{ Statement: Rule 33 may not be repealed, renumbered, or amended, EVER, and= this=20 CFI cannot be overruled by other CFIs or by any other method. }} Rule the preceding CFI TRUE. Appeal the preceding CFI. Rule the preceding CFI TRUE. }} --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:09:51 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:09:51 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Stop me before it's too late... On Thursday 22 August 2002 08:55 am, Wonko wrote: > But nobody knows which companies are which until they break in and see.= =2E. > Ooo, and if you can find the rule that says you can't change the rules > without finding them, you could change it to let you (and only you) cha= nge > any rule at will... > > I would say that if you plan on a Nomic in which rules have such physic= al > manifestations, it'd be far better (and easier) to make it a MUD Nomic. Have you ever tried programming a MUD? I have. It's not easy. Now add ann= oying=20 players that always push *that* red button... --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:10:37 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:10:37 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] it's all gone to HELL On Thursday 22 August 2002 09:05 am, Wonko wrote: > Quoth Baron von Skippy, > > >> I issue, retroactively, and in blatant defiance of "Thou Shalt Not S= crew > >> With Time," Writs of Delay, one per day for every day of the past we= ek > >> (not nweek). > > > > -[[Do the rules say you're subject to them?]]- > > The rules say that everyone's subject to them, but I'm not about to obj= ect > to the admin's actions. And if nobody objects, the Statute of Limitatio= ns > brings the game back to where it would be if it had been legal. Wheee! > > And if anyone does object, I will personally propose to kick the shit o= ut > of them. [[ Must......... Resist......... ]] > >> I've moved again, I'm on a dialup, I'm broke, I'm homeless, I'm hung= ry, > >> I'm pissed. I've got things on my mind right now that I consider to = be > >> far more important than this game (apologies to Glotmorf, who seems = to > >> either have a slavish devotion or WAY too much time on eir hands :). > > > > -[[We need to get that whole thing about Respecting the Admin worked > > out...]]- > > Don't we have it worked out? I mean, it's not actually written in the > ruleset anywhere, but that doesn't mean we can't have respect for the a= dmin > anyway. I have tremendous respect for Dave - he's kept the game running= all > this time despite the ever-increasing complexity of the ruleset, and I > don't think any of the rest of us could do that half as well as Dave do= es. > Sure, r0 says we can deal with the sudden abscence of our admin, but I > really don't think we could - none of us could do what Dave does. Don't= get > me wrong - I'm not belittling all us players, but the things Dave has d= one > to keep this game going are frankly astounding. > > We don't need the ruleset to tell us to respect em. We already do. --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:14:28 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:14:28 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] sigh On Wednesday 21 August 2002 11:59 pm, David E. Smith wrote: > I'm still here. > > I found out that I'd missed large parts of the database when I was doin= g > my last-minute backup, and the last full backup I have from before that= is > from the beginning of the nweek. > > So until Joel gets settled in wherever he's gotten off to, we're still > basically frozen in time, under whichever rule it is that requires > everything on the ballot to be publicly displayed. > > Which works out well because I've got bigger things to worry about. > > I'm going to be blunt, folks. My personal life is pretty well falling > apart. I'm not actually homeless, but my housing situation is rather > tenuous indeed at this point. I've driven about five thousand miles in = the > past couple weeks. (The sordid details will soon be posted at > metadave.net.) As I may have mentioned, I'm tired, I'm hungry, and I'm > very cranky indeed. > > I've never done something like this before, so feel free to laugh (or > forfeit the Nomic, as you see fit), but I'm screwed and I could use you= r > help. > > If the many hours I've put into this game have provided you with even a > little amusement, and you have a dollar or two that you can spare, and = a > PayPal account, well, you can finish the sentence. :( I'm too young to use that. And I wouldn't use PayPal anyway, > The game will go on, either way, as soon as Joel gets nomic.net back > online, but this earns you my undying gratitude -- which just might be > more valuable than B Nomic Shillings, the way the economy's going these > days. > > Anything collected in excess of my immediate needs (basically, lunch an= d > maybe gas for the car) will be saved for future nifty stuff, like maybe > buying "bnomic.org" or something and giving players bnomic.org email > addresses. How about bnomic.no-ip.org? And, a CFI could be issued to fix things. The= n=20 ruled true. Then appealed and ruled true. Or something. --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:16:14 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:16:14 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] it's all gone to HELL On Thursday 22 August 2002 01:09 pm, David E. Smith wrote: > On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Joshua Caudle wrote: > > Well unfortunately roadtrip repealed itself after he called "holy shi= t, I > > made it" in the last public forum. thusly we could call for emergency > > status until everything gets itself back together... not a pleasent i= dea > > but it might just work well enough to get everything back on it's fee= t > > again... > > Since the outage was announced, I'm not entirely sure it qualifies as a= n > Emergency. So? The rule says we only have to say we recognize it. > > -Squire (hoping this will take some of the pressure off of dave for a > > while) > > Can't be done. > > (This won't make sense to anyone but Squire: Tell the girls I'm fine, a= t > least physically.) > > ...dave > > > > _______________________________________________ > BNomic-Private mailing list > BNomic-Private@ysolde.ucam.org > http://www.ysolde.ucam.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bnomic-private --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:15:22 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:15:22 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] it's all gone to HELL On Thursday 22 August 2002 12:51 pm, Joshua Caudle wrote: > Well unfortunately roadtrip repealed itself after he called "holy shit,= I > made it" in the last public forum. thusly we could call for emergency > status until everything gets itself back together... not a pleasent ide= a > but it might just work well enough to get everything back on it's feet > again... rather than dave having to call for a writ of delay every two = day > or so retroactively... becasue we definitely qualify for a state of > emergency... it's been more than 7 days since joel went off line... an= y > comments??? > > -Squire (hoping this will take some of the pressure off of dave for a > while) [[ Fine. Drumroll, please! ]] I recognize a State of Emergency, as defined in rule zero, revision zero. --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:18:15 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:18:15 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] it's all gone to HELL On Thursday 22 August 2002 10:37 pm, Baron von Skippy wrote: > > > You know, Dave, you could just call a Road Trip, then undesignate > > > Bnomic-Private as a pubilc forum. Then you wouldn't have to worry a= bout > > > >the > > > > > game at all, 'cause the game wouldn't happen 'til you had time to m= ake > > > >it > > > > > happen again. > > > >No, actually, I can't. I obviously didn't anticipate the nasty car cra= sh > >in which my father was involved, so the Road Trip rule was a > >self-repealing one-shot. > > > >...dave > > -[[Oh, damn. That's rough. I wish I could say things that didn't sound > cliched... Good luck, Dave. May you get through this turbulent period a= nd > return to a normal life soon.]]- Assuming running a nomic is "normal"... --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:22:36 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:22:36 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] in other news... On Friday 23 August 2002 12:59 am, David E. Smith wrote: > Mr. Thousand CFIs [[ Look, don't talk about it. We'll use the Statue of Restrictions thingy= =2E So=20 don't call attention to it. And don't post them. And it was 1001. Oh, shi= t.=20 *sound of ruleset cathing on* * --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:25:21 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:25:21 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] This oughta stir up some discussion... On Tuesday 27 August 2002 01:31 am, Wonko wrote: > Quoth David E. Smith, > > > ... or at least be a good way to kill some time. > > > > I propose that, if there's enough players around to do so, we initiat= e a > > State of Emergency. Just for the heck of it, mostly. > > > > Technically, Joel's been offline for well more than seven days, so we= can > > get away with that sort of thing anyway. > > > > Here's the bare minimum refresh proposal: > > > > > > Make 5 random Gremlins Active; put all other Gremlins into Hiding. > > > > [[ Gremlin records were only on Joel's system and are presumed lost. = ]] > > > > Remove all BNS from all players, then give 500 BNS to each player. Gi= ve > > the Bank (5,000,000 - (500 * number of players)) BNS. > > > > [[ Because it needs to be done anyway. ]] > > > > Reset the Clock to nweek 22, nday 8, and turn the Clock On. > > > > [[ I'll recognize, as best I can, stuff from the past couple weeks wo= rth > > of emails, and then voting will start. This list will carry on as the > > Public Forum. ]] > > > > Discuss. :-) > > A state of Emergency I do declare. Anyone know where Joel is? > Give all BNS from all players to the Bank. > Give 500 BNS to each player. Kill the stocks. > [[That's gone pretty screwy too, though I hate to lose my 5 mil or so]] > > Reset the Clock to nweek 22, nday 8, and turn the Clock On. > }} --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:25:53 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:25:53 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Oh, yeah. I come Off Leave. --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:49:27 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:49:27 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Referesh Prop Actually, here's a refresh proposal now that I've given the matter some thought: {{ Put all Gnomes owned by players into eir Gnome Bags. Reset the Clock to nweek 22, nday 8, and turn the Clock On. Renumber all of bd's 1001 CFI's using the numbers between -1000 and -2002. Renumber everything issued after bd's CFI's using the numbers they would have recieved had bd not issued 1001 CFI's. [[We can just pretend they were never there - no need to record em in the DB. E legally rescinded em, anyway. But we need the CFI's to have actually happened so Entropy can blow a lot of the need for records away.]] [[ The Gremlins aren't an issue - they're all clobbered when bd's Entropy skyrockets from eir CFI's, and the grid blows. Once all Gnomes are bagged, they aren't a problem either. The Money issue is already being dealt with by proposals - as far as I can tell, mine is the only "fix the economy" proposal that won't become entirely moot if money is dealt with here. Since the Clock is starting on nday 8, we won't have time to replace these proposals, so many people will lose points for circumstances beyond eir control. Meanwhile, a couple people turned most of eir points into BNS, and taking all that away and turning it into a mere 50 points worth of BNS would be cruel. Don't worry about the economy, folks, I'll give almost all of what I took back as soon as I'm sure I'm actually giving it back to the Bank, and not just all to someone else using my same scam. ]] }} -- Wonko From mcfoufou@umich.edu Tue, 27 Aug 2002 20:13:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 20:13:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeremy "Athena" Cook mcfoufou@umich.edu Subject: [Bnomic-private] emergencies and such I also recognize a rule 0 emergency. Athena <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> "All our belief systems, religions, and governments are the result of a series of mistakes that turned out to be better at making copies of themselves after all." -Richard Brodie http://www.memecentral.com/Level3.htm "We look at the world through windows on which have been drawn grids (concepts). Different philosophies use different grids. A culture is a group of people with rather similar grids. Through a window we view chaos, and relate it to the points on our grid, and thereby understand it. The ORDER is in the GRID." -The Principia Discordia <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Jeremy Cook The Goddess Athena mcfoufou@umich.edu From mhaywood383@hotmail.com Tue, 27 Aug 2002 20:43:58 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 20:43:58 -0400 From: Mark Haywood mhaywood383@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] This oughta stir up some discussion... Because we need to, I declare a State of Emergency. ________________________________________________________________________ Mithrandir _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From squire_of_dimness@sbcglobal.net Tue, 27 Aug 2002 23:46:47 -0500 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 23:46:47 -0500 From: Joshua Caudle squire_of_dimness@sbcglobal.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] This oughta stir up some discussion... ----- Original Message ----- From: "David E. Smith" To: Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 11:52 PM Subject: [Bnomic-private] This oughta stir up some discussion... > ... or at least be a good way to kill some time. > > I propose that, if there's enough players around to do so, we initiate a > State of Emergency. Just for the heck of it, mostly. > > Technically, Joel's been offline for well more than seven days, so we can > get away with that sort of thing anyway. > > Here's the bare minimum refresh proposal: > > > Make 5 random Gremlins Active; put all other Gremlins into Hiding. > > [[ Gremlin records were only on Joel's system and are presumed lost. ]] > > Remove all BNS from all players, then give 500 BNS to each player. Give > the Bank (5,000,000 - (500 * number of players)) BNS. > > [[ Because it needs to be done anyway. ]] > > Reset the Clock to nweek 22, nday 8, and turn the Clock On. > > [[ I'll recognize, as best I can, stuff from the past couple weeks worth > of emails, and then voting will start. This list will carry on as the > Public Forum. ]] > > Discuss. :-) > > ...dave > I recognise state of emergency esp since I originally suggested it... :-P I'm perfectly happy with the refresh prop being as it means I'll actually have some currency to convert ot a point value... yay! not to mention that wonko no longer has control of hte economy as for hte stock exchange props I'm goign to have to look at thos again once we leave the state of emergency... spekaing of which where is joel??? I thouight he was only expecting a week of downtime.... From dave@technopagan.org Wed, 28 Aug 2002 06:36:19 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 06:36:19 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] oh, what the hell. I've got at least six or seven acknowledgements of an Emergency, but I don't have a Roster. I'm gonna assume we've reached a majority at some point and go with it. I'm also gonna assume we can just skip over the first couple steps of the Procedure -- unless someone has reason to object to this list being used as the public forum, or to my function as Administrator. (Hey, if someone else wants the job, go right ahead. :) I'll use the same basic setup as before: If there are no objections to either of those statements in, say, 24 hours, we'll go with 'em. I will also set up a new Web site, importing everything I have from the last nomic.net database dump, and then start all the massive recognizing that needed to be done before nweek 22 voting. (Bear in mind that I'm looking at something like 300 emails to go through, so that part alone may take a day or two.) ...dave ---- David E. Smith http://www.technopagan.org/ http://metadave.net/ http://www.bureau42.com/ http://whatIsay.com/ http://www.nomic.net/~g6/ From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Wed, 28 Aug 2002 09:50:29 -0400 Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 09:50:29 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] oh, what the hell. On Wednesday 28 August 2002 02:36 am, David E. Smith wrote: > I've got at least six or seven acknowledgements of an Emergency, but I > don't have a Roster. [[ Do all newbies go thru a SOE the second nweek they're in the game? I k= now I=20 did... ]] --=20 bd The above =3D=3D my from field. Duh. From dave@technopagan.org Thu, 29 Aug 2002 00:48:41 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 00:48:41 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] it's a start... Part of the B Nomic site is up at http://www.technopagan.org/nomic/ I'll be working tonight and tomorrow to find all the broken stuff and make it less broken. Ministers are asked not to try to log in to their Ministerial stuff just yet, as it's more broken than most things. Oh yeah, the Clock is wrong too. :) ...dave ---- David E. Smith http://www.technopagan.org/ http://metadave.net/ http://www.bureau42.com/ http://whatIsay.com/ http://www.nomic.net/~g6/ From mhaywood383@hotmail.com Wed, 28 Aug 2002 21:13:12 -0400 Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 21:13:12 -0400 From: Mark Haywood mhaywood383@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] oh, what the hell. > > I've got at least six or seven acknowledgements of an Emergency, but I > > don't have a Roster. > >[[ Do all newbies go thru a SOE the second nweek they're in the game? I >know I >did... ]] > >-- >bd >The above == my from field. Duh. > Well, this is only my first nweek, but it feels like I've been here a lot longer than that... ________________________________________________________________________ Mithrandir _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Wed, 28 Aug 2002 21:32:11 -0400 Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 21:32:11 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] refreksh Set my refresh proposal to: {{ Make 5 random Gremlins Active; put all other Gremlins into Hiding. Remove all BNS from all players, then give 500 BNS to each player. Give the Bank (5,000,000 - (500 * number of players)) BNS. Destroy all Stocks. Reset the Clock to nweek 22, nday 8, and turn the Clock Off. Create the following rule: {{ __The Clock is Broken__ If, at any time the forum spoon-business@nomic.net is not a public forum = and=20 the clock is On, turn the clock Off. This rule takes precedence over all other rules. }} Make spoon-business@nomic.net a private forum. If the player bd has had made more than 1001 CFIs, delete the last 1001 a= s if=20 they had never been submitted. }} --=20 bd QOTD: =09"In the shopping mall of the mind, he's in the toy department." From dave@technopagan.org Thu, 29 Aug 2002 07:12:23 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 07:12:23 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Daily Recognizer (Thursday morning) This is, maybe, everything that went down before the present State of Emergency. The new B Nomic site, at http://www.technopagan.org/nomic/ , should reflect most if not all of these things. This does NOT reflect the Entropy-borne apocalypse which came before the present Emergency. I'll get to that later. :-) The Refresh Proposals I've seen are on the aforementioned Web site. If I missed something (which is very probable indeed) yell. I recognized a few things normally assigned to Ministers, just so I can be sure the Web site is a little less broken. Any ministers who have their stuff hosted via the main site (the Grid and Gnome ministers, at least) are asked to contact me privately, as there are new URLs and new passwords for their Ministries. Miscellaneous Stuff: BvS cannot join Team Crimson (team imbalance), but still enters the Grid. Orc punts the Football toward (2,9). Miraculously, that will be its final landing place as well. Glotmorf cannot leave the Grid, eir blatant attempt to misinterpret the rules notwithstanding. Ditto for Squire. Squire is hired on at vSOI. The Voice comes Off Leave and joins the Mentor Pool. Wonko goes On Leave. bd goes On Leave. bd returns from Leave. Proposals: "Towel Racks" is 975/0. "These Titles Ought To Last" is 976/0. "Can't Touch This" is 978/0. "And now, the Dramatic Conclusion" is 968/1. "Healthy Competition, My Ass" is 967/1. "Graves, Make That my New Motto" is 966/1. "The Game is Afoot! I'll Take 'Anal Bum Cover' for 7,000" is 969/1, 969/2, 969/3, 969/4. "untitled champagne proposal" is 971/1. (Squire, these things sell so much better with witty titles. Would anyone buy Doritos if they were labeled "corn chips with toxic orange powder"?) "Cleaning Up After Wonko's Cleanup" is 951/1. "This Wasn't In My Job Description..." is 979/0. "A bit of Exorc." is 980/0. "A bit more Exorc." is 981/0. "A little more" is 982/0. "And finally..." is 983/0. "Fixing the Stock Market" is 984/0. "Wealth Control" is 958/3. "Ambassador Biweekly" is 985/0. "The World is An Atheist's Temple" is 986/0. "Lord of the Stock Scam" is 987/0. "Mutations BAD! Krunk smash!" is 989/0. "ChAoS!!!" is 990/0. "Immutable my ass" is 991/0. CFIs: Orc's "champagne" CFI is 977, assigned to Squire of Dimness. Glotmorf rules TRUE on CFI 887, as does BvS. Sadly, UIN is removed from the roster. bd's "roster" CFI is 988, assigned to Orc In A Spacesuit. bd's "Rules 0...1000 inclusive" CFIs are not numbered, as they were subsequently rescinded. (Phew.) ...dave ---- David E. Smith http://www.technopagan.org/ http://metadave.net/ http://www.bureau42.com/ http://whatIsay.com/ http://www.nomic.net/~g6/ From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Thu, 29 Aug 2002 22:42:11 -0400 Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 22:42:11 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Daily Recognizer (Thursday morning) >"Immutable my ass" is 991/0. -Dave? That wasn't a real proposal. It was enclosed within brackets, so it can't have been- "Immutable" has more than one syllable, and I didn't use any quotes.- [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From dave@technopagan.org Thu, 29 Aug 2002 20:43:24 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 20:43:24 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Pause Having heard no objections, I'll assume that the continuation of me as Admin and this list as Public Forum is acceptable. The Pause is initialized. It's at 0 now, and will turn over to 1 in a few hours. Get those refresh proposals in, folks! ...dave -- David E. Smith http://www.technopagan.org/ http://metadave.net/ "You know I don't approve of violence ... but these ARE deadly robots!" From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Fri, 30 Aug 2002 00:50:46 -0400 Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 00:50:46 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Daily Recognizer (Thursday morning) Quoth David E. Smith, > This is, maybe, everything that went down before the present State of > Emergency. The new B Nomic site, at http://www.technopagan.org/nomic/ , > should reflect most if not all of these things. > > This does NOT reflect the Entropy-borne apocalypse which came before the > present Emergency. I'll get to that later. :-) [[ Before? I think it doesn't happen 'til after - bd's entropy, from issuing then rescinding 1001 CFI's, will increase by 1001 *at the end of the nweek*. Which is good, 'cause it falls during the time off for proposal processing. ]] I come off leave, if I'm On Leave. [[I don't remember.]] I change my refresh prop to: {{ Put all Gnomes owned by players into eir Gnome Bags. Reset the Clock to nweek 22, nday 8, and turn the Clock On. Renumber everything numbered since the 1001 CFI's issued and rescinded by bd to what numbers they would have gotten if those CFI's had not been issued. [[so we don't have to increment our serial position by 1000]] }} [[ That just looks nicer. ;) ]] -- Wonko From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Fri, 30 Aug 2002 00:55:06 -0400 Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 00:55:06 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] refreksh Quoth bd, > Set my refresh proposal to: > {{ > Make 5 random Gremlins Active; put all other Gremlins into Hiding. > > Remove all BNS from all players, then give 500 BNS to each player. Give > the Bank (5,000,000 - (500 * number of players)) BNS. Wouldn't it be easier to say, give all BNS to the Bank, then give 500 to each player from the Bank? > Destroy all Stocks. You might want to use 'Shares' here - Stocks are defined by the rules to exist. 'Buying a Stock' is the same as 'Buying a share of a Stock', but I don't think 'Destroying a Stock' is the same as 'Destroying a share of a Stock'... > Reset the Clock to nweek 22, nday 8, and turn the Clock Off. > > Create the following rule: > {{ > __The Clock is Broken__ > > If, at any time the forum spoon-business@nomic.net is not a public forum and > the clock is On, turn the clock Off. > > This rule takes precedence over all other rules. > }} That would shut down our current mailing list's power. If Joel takes a while, that could really suck. > Make spoon-business@nomic.net a private forum. It is already. > If the player bd has had made more than 1001 CFIs, delete the last 1001 as if > they had never been submitted. If yer gonna do that, you'll want to call an Entropy Apocalypse too, so we don't need to salvage all the Ministry Records. > }} -- Wonko From squire_of_dimness@sbcglobal.net Fri, 30 Aug 2002 00:24:37 -0500 Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 00:24:37 -0500 From: Joshua Caudle squire_of_dimness@sbcglobal.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] oh, what the hell. ----- Original Message ----- From: "bd" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [Bnomic-private] oh, what the hell. On Wednesday 28 August 2002 02:36 am, David E. Smith wrote: > I've got at least six or seven acknowledgements of an Emergency, but I > don't have a Roster. [[ Do all newbies go thru a SOE the second nweek they're in the game? I know I did... ]] -- bd The above == my from field. Duh. acutally this is still nweek 22 so it's still technically my first week of gametime... yippee!!! I joined the day dave came back form road trip and ti's been chaos ever since... -Squire From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:43:55 -0400 Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:43:55 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] refreksh On Friday 30 August 2002 12:55 am, Wonko wrote: > Quoth bd, > Set my refresh proposal to: {{ Make 5 random Gremlins Active; put all other Gremlins into Hiding. Remove all BNS from all players, then give 5,000,000 BNS to the Bank. Destroy all Shares of Stocks. If the player bd has had made more than 1001 CFIs, delete the last 1001 as if they had never been submitted. Set the Entropy of all players to 9,999,999. }} --=20 bd Two can Live as Cheaply as One for Half as Long. =09=09-- Howard Kandel From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:22:22 +0100 Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:22:22 +0100 From: Jonathan David Amery jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] it's all gone to HELL > I recognize a State of Emergency, as defined in rule zero, revision zero. Oh, go on then.