From bnomic-private@ysolde.ucam.org Fri Nov 15 02:40:20 2002 From: bnomic-private@ysolde.ucam.org (Wonko) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:40:20 -0500 Subject: [Bnomic-private] Scam: Bandwidth Message-ID: I submit the following 2 proposals, both of type 1/2: {{ __Dummy 1__ Repeal rule 819. }} {{ __Dummy 2__ Repeal rule 1147. }} That exhausts my Token-of-Proposals Bonus Bandwidth. But since modification doesn't involve bandwidth, I can now amend these 2 proposals into full proposals, confident that they will not count any more towards my Bandwidth. ;) I amend my proposal entitled Dummy 1 to be: {{ __Get Rid of 'em Already!__ Remove the last two paragraphs of rule 19. Remove the fourth paragraph of rule 212. [[excising 1/2 props - they do nothing that can't be done with A la cartes, and they let me do this.]] }} and my one entitled Dummy 2 to be: {{ __Patching up Societies__ Amend rule 208/0 to read: {{ __Proxies__ A player may designate another player or society to be the holder of eir proxy, with or without restrictions. The holder of a proxy may, depending on any restrictions issued along with the proxy, cast a vote in the name of the player whose proxy is held, on any matter requiring a vote, including, but not limited to, proposals and calls for judgment. When this happens, the player whose proxy is held is considered to have cast the vote, instead of the proxy-holder. [[so that people can't reap multiple contrary-vote points off of proxies]] A player who has given eir proxy to be held may withdraw it at any time. }} [[This lets societies vote for players if the players give eir proxies to the societies. I also figured I might as well fix the "multi-contrary-vote bonus" loophole in the proxies, as long as I'm changing the rule.]] {{ __Societies__ I. Definition A society is a group of entities, called the Members of that society, who agree to be governed by a set of publicly visible rules, called the Charter of that society, and who have become members of that society in a manner prescribed by either the rules or by the society's Charter. II. Actions A society is capable of taking the following actions, subject to the restrictions listed in this rule and in all other rules: Accepting new members Evicting current members Destributing possessions of the society to its members Modifying its charter Disbanding and destroying itself Making proposals Changing proposals it has made Restrictions: A society does not take actions unless its charter dictates that it does. A society cannot take any action that is forbidden by one or more game rules. A society cannot issue a proposal unless its bandwidth is at least 1. III. Possessions Societies may possess any object that a player could legally possess. A society may transfer any or all of its possessions to any other entity that could possess those objects, but does so only when its charter dictates that it does. Any player may transfer a game object they possess which they could legally give to another player to any society, unless a rule prohibits this. IV. Score Each society has a Point Balance. When a society gains points, those points are destroyed and the society's Point Balance increases by the number of points. When a society loses points, its Point Balance decreases by the amount of points lost. A society with a positive Point Balance may give points up to its Point Balance to any entity which can possess points; the society lose points equal to the number given. If a society's Point Balance is negative, it may not give points to any other entity, although other entities may give points to it if the rules permit it. If a society with a Negative Point Balance is disbanded, its members each lose |PB|/n points, rounded up, where PB is the Point Balance of that society, and n is the number of members. If a society has a negative Point Balance and only one member, and that member leaves the society, the member first loses points equal to the magnitude of the society's Point Balance. V. Bandwidth Societies may possess Bandwidth. When a society makes a proposal, its bandwidth decreases by one. A society may not make a proposal if it has no Bandwidth. Any player may transfer a point of Bandwidth from emself to any society. VI. Charm Societies possess Charm. When a society's proposal passes, its Charm increases by one. When a society's proposal fails, its Charm decreases by one. Any society may transfer a point of Charm from itself to any player, but only as its charter dictates. VII. Creation Once per nweek, each player may create a new society whose only member is that player. VIII. Clarification [[Everything in this section is technically covered by some other part of this rule, but is included here to make it as clear as possible how the preceding sections are to be interpreted.]] Membership in a society is entirely at the discretion of the member. No player may be forced to become a member of a society, and any player may choose to leave a society rather than fulfill a requirement set forth in that society's charter. If the last member of a society leaves that society, the society ceases to exist. [[because without members, it no longer fits the definition of a society.]] }} }} -- Wonko From bnomic-private@ysolde.ucam.org Fri Nov 15 04:59:30 2002 From: bnomic-private@ysolde.ucam.org (Glotmorf) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 23:59:30 -0500 Subject: [Bnomic-private] Scam: Bandwidth In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200211142359300280.00AA0990@smtp.ioip.com> On 11/14/02 at 9:40 PM Wonko wrote: >V. Bandwidth > Societies may possess Bandwidth. When a society makes a proposal, its >bandwidth decreases by one. A society may not make a proposal if it has no >Bandwidth. Any player may transfer a point of Bandwidth from emself to any >society. Allowing for the possibility that my complexity-based bandwidth cost= proposal passes, should perhaps your new part V defer to other rules= regarding bandwidth costs to proposing entities? Glotmorf ----- The Ivory Mini-Tower: a cyber-anthropologist's blog http://ix1.1sound.com/ivoryminitower From bnomic-private@ysolde.ucam.org Fri Nov 15 06:21:04 2002 From: bnomic-private@ysolde.ucam.org (Orc In A Spacesuit) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 00:21:04 -0600 Subject: [Bnomic-private] Scam: Bandwidth Message-ID: This is to bnomic-private@ysolde.ucam.org, Wonko. I don't think it's still a public forum. >From: Wonko >That exhausts my Token-of-Proposals Bonus Bandwidth. But since modification >doesn't involve bandwidth, I can now amend these 2 proposals into full >proposals, confident that they will not count any more towards my >Bandwidth. Nice. >__Societies__ I have some problems with this, but I'm open to the possibility it may be good with some changes. >I. Definition > A society is a group of entities, called the Members of that society, >who agree to be governed by a set of publicly visible rules, called the >Charter of that society, and who have become members of that society in a >manner prescribed by either the rules or by the society's Charter. Entity isn't really well defined in the game rules; hence my special definitions. Are societies entities? >II. Actions > A society is capable of taking the following actions, subject to the >restrictions listed in this rule and in all other rules: > >Accepting new members >Evicting current members >Destributing possessions of the society to its members >Modifying its charter >Disbanding and destroying itself >Making proposals >Changing proposals it has made > >Restrictions: > A society does not take actions unless its charter dictates that it >does. A society cannot take any action that is forbidden by one or more >game >rules. A society cannot issue a proposal unless its bandwidth is at least >1. > >III. Possessions > Societies may possess any object that a player could legally possess. >A >society may transfer any or all of its possessions to any other entity that >could possess those objects, but does so only when its charter dictates >that >it does. > Any player may transfer a game object they possess which they could >legally give to another player to any society, unless a rule prohibits >this. I want this, but this causes lots of problems. What is the location of the object? Under the current rules, the object stays where it is, can be picked up, is subject to destruction, may be Tractor Beamed, etc. Plus, this could allow me to teleport anything anywhere just through use of a society. Which is the reason for the Warehouses idea, which anyone can feel free to borrow for eir own use. >IV. Score > Each society has a Point Balance. When a society gains points, those >points are destroyed and the society's Point Balance increases by the >number >of points. When a society loses points, its Point Balance decreases by the >amount of points lost. A society with a positive Point Balance may give >points up to its Point Balance to any entity which can possess points; the >society lose points equal to the number given. But Societies don't have points. So Societies won't be able to exchange stuff. So b2b is out the window. >If a society's Point Balance >is negative, it may not give points to any other entity, although other >entities may give points to it if the rules permit it. If a society with a >Negative Point Balance is disbanded, its members each lose |PB|/n points, >rounded up, where PB is the Point Balance of that society, and n is the >number of members. If a society has a negative Point Balance and only one >member, and that member leaves the society, the member first loses points >equal to the magnitude of the society's Point Balance. Leaving the last one out holding the bag. >V. Bandwidth > Societies may possess Bandwidth. When a society makes a proposal, its >bandwidth decreases by one. A society may not make a proposal if it has no >Bandwidth. Any player may transfer a point of Bandwidth from emself to any >society. > >VI. Charm > Societies possess Charm. When a society's proposal passes, its Charm >increases by one. When a society's proposal fails, its Charm decreases by >one. Any society may transfer a point of Charm from itself to any player, >but only as its charter dictates. Charm can be positive or negative. There's a reason I didn't do this for Charm. Just give the difference out. >VII. Creation > Once per nweek, each player may create a new society whose only member >is that player. > >VIII. Clarification > [[Everything in this section is technically covered by some other part >of this rule, but is included here to make it as clear as possible how the >preceding sections are to be interpreted.]] > Membership in a society is entirely at the discretion of the member. >No >player may be forced to become a member of a society, and any player may >choose to leave a society rather than fulfill a requirement set forth in >that society's charter. If the last member of a society leaves that >society, >the society ceases to exist. [[because without members, it no longer fits >the definition of a society.]] > >}} >}} > >-- >Wonko Are you not wanting Corporations? I don't have a problem with them going out, but are you aware you are doing this? Orc In A Spacesuit _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From bnomic-private@ysolde.ucam.org Sat Nov 16 04:38:38 2002 From: bnomic-private@ysolde.ucam.org (Wonko) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 23:38:38 -0500 Subject: [Bnomic-private] Scam: Bandwidth In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Quoth Orc In A Spacesuit, > This is to bnomic-private@ysolde.ucam.org, Wonko. I don't think it's still > a public forum. Got it. >> I. Definition >> A society is a group of entities, called the Members of that society, >> who agree to be governed by a set of publicly visible rules, called the >> Charter of that society, and who have become members of that society in a >> manner prescribed by either the rules or by the society's Charter. > > Entity isn't really well defined in the game rules; hence my special > definitions. Are societies entities? Entity is defined partially be standard english, where it refers to any single body, being, or object, and partially by game convention, where it generally refers to objects that take actions in and of themselves; either would work with this prop, the classification of something as an entitiy is a matter for the justice system, or for a definitions rule. >> III. Possessions >> Societies may possess any object that a player could legally possess. >> A >> society may transfer any or all of its possessions to any other entity that >> could possess those objects, but does so only when its charter dictates >> that >> it does. >> Any player may transfer a game object they possess which they could >> legally give to another player to any society, unless a rule prohibits >> this. > > I want this, but this causes lots of problems. What is the location of the > object? Under the current rules, the object stays where it is, can be > picked up, is subject to destruction, may be Tractor Beamed, etc. Plus, > this could allow me to teleport anything anywhere just through use of a > society. Which is the reason for the Warehouses idea, which anyone can feel > free to borrow for eir own use. Exactly the same thing happens as if the player had given the object to another player. >> IV. Score >> Each society has a Point Balance. When a society gains points, those >> points are destroyed and the society's Point Balance increases by the >> number >> of points. When a society loses points, its Point Balance decreases by the >> amount of points lost. A society with a positive Point Balance may give >> points up to its Point Balance to any entity which can possess points; the >> society lose points equal to the number given. > > But Societies don't have points. So Societies won't be able to exchange > stuff. So b2b is out the window. 'b2b'? >> If a society's Point Balance >> is negative, it may not give points to any other entity, although other >> entities may give points to it if the rules permit it. If a society with a >> Negative Point Balance is disbanded, its members each lose |PB|/n points, >> rounded up, where PB is the Point Balance of that society, and n is the >> number of members. If a society has a negative Point Balance and only one >> member, and that member leaves the society, the member first loses points >> equal to the magnitude of the society's Point Balance. > > Leaving the last one out holding the bag. Yes. >> VI. Charm >> Societies possess Charm. When a society's proposal passes, its Charm >> increases by one. When a society's proposal fails, its Charm decreases by >> one. Any society may transfer a point of Charm from itself to any player, >> but only as its charter dictates. > > Charm can be positive or negative. There's a reason I didn't do this for > Charm. Just give the difference out. Or dump it on the last one gone again. I think I'll do that. > Are you not wanting Corporations? I don't have a problem with them going > out, but are you aware you are doing this? Actually, this draft doesn't sack corporations, because I forgot to specify that the society thing was a replacement for the current version, but I don't think corporations should be here anyway. They should be defined in a separate rule, and I plan on proposing that next nweek (along with warehouses if you don't plan on proposing them). I first want to get a basic structure set up and give people some time to pick at it and find the holes before complicated things that we don't use get put in. -- Wonko From bnomic-private@ysolde.ucam.org Thu Nov 28 02:49:26 2002 From: bnomic-private@ysolde.ucam.org (bd) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:49:26 -0500 Subject: [Bnomic-private] Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] Time for some surrealness... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200211272149.26360.bdonlan@maine.rr.com> On Wednesday 27 November 2002 09:45 pm, Baron von Skippy wrote: > > >> >I don't expect Glotmorf to let too much of this through, but with= me > > > >and > > > > >> >bd > > >> >both uberpowers-enabled... > > >> > > > >> >bd, by the power vested in me yadda yadda, I use the Wand of Poor > > > >Taste > > > > >>on > > >> > > >> >you. Your socks do not match your shirt. > > >> > > >>By the power vested in me, I hereby designate a Calvinball arena at= an > > >>undisclosed location that is somewhere not on the public forum of t= his > > >>game. I mandate that any Calvinball activities by players of this = game > > > > > >be > > > > > >>conducted there. > > >> > > >>Let me know when y'all discover the location, and I'll come and wat= ch. > > >> > > >>=09=09=09=09=09=09Glotmorf > > > > > >-How's spoon-discuss, then?- > > > >Based on the reaction to bd's thousand CFIs, I'd say Calvinball on > >spoon-discuss would be considered an act of Unbridled Hostility(tm): y= ou'd > >be spamming people. True, spoon-discuss isn't a public forum, but it'= s > >highly encouraged that everyone subscribe to it...so you *know* you'd = be > >spamming people and would therefore have no excuse. > > > >So unless you want to grab your ankles for a cluster-kick, I'd suggest= no > >Calvinball on spoon-discuss either. > > > >=09=09=09=09=09=09Glotmorf > > -bnomic-private?- Why not? --=20 bd Whom the mad would destroy, first they make Gods. =09=09-- Bernard Levin