From dave@technopagan.org Mon, 2 Sep 2002 17:14:58 +0000 (GMT) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 17:14:58 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] Random thoughts... The Pause is at 3 right now. There's still time for Refresh proposals, if anyone has any zany ideas. I retract my Refresh proposal, by the way. The others out there seem to have things well in hand. I also present the following, which I was gonna mail separately, but then I realized that the above was only like five lines and there's no point wasting valuable electrons on a separate email. :-) ... This is an idea, and probably a very bad one. I'll propose it as soon as Normality has been restored, just so it can be voted down and we can confirm how incredibly bad an idea it is. Actually, Item 1 isn't that bad an idea, but that'll be outdone by Item 2. In fact, Item 2 will likely cause shock and revulsion. {{ __The Worst Thing Since Sliced Bread__ This is an A La Carte Proposal. Item 1: {{ Create a new rule: {{ __Gold Stars__ There exist Objects called Gold Stars. Gold Stars may be awarded by the Administrator to any player, at any time. A player may own any number of Gold Stars. Gold Stars may not be transferred between players or removed from a player's possession by any means except those explicitly stated in this rule. This rule takes precedence over every other rule in this regard. Each Gold Star has, associated with it, a Date of Issue. At the start of the voting period in the third nweek following the Date of Issue for a given Gold Star, that Gold Star ceases to exist. [[ i.e. whether you get it on 22.1 or 22.9, it'll still expire at 24.8 ]] }} Replace the text of Rule 212 with the following: {{ Each player is limited to a maximum of 5 proposals per nweek. This rule does not apply to any player that has a Gold Star. }} }} [[ end of item 1 ]] [[ and now the REALLLLLLLLY UGLY part... ]] Item 2: {{ Create a new rule: {{ __Make Propo$al$ FA$T__ Any player may, at any time, pay Five US dollars to the Administrator in exchange for a Gold Star. The Gold Star shall be issued to the paying player at the beginning of the nweek following receipt of payment. If payment is received during the first two days of an nweek, the Administrator may, at eir discretion, issue the Gold Star immediately. Players may purchase Gold Stars on behalf of other players, by requesting such when payment is made. Players may pay in advance, requesting that Gold Stars be issued at a specific point in the future, by requesting such when payment is made. }} Append the following to Rule 206 [[ Garbage Collection ]] : {{ This rule does not apply to any player that has a Gold Star. }} Append the following to the second paragraph of Rule 205 [[ Leaves of Absence ]] : {{ A player that has a Gold Star may not be placed on Forced Leave. E may still voluntarily choose to go On Leave. }} Append the following to the end of the list in Rule 26 [[ New Players ]] : {{ One Gold Star, issued as of the date e became a Player }} }} [[ end of item 2 ]] }} From glotmorf@earthlink.net Mon, 02 Sep 2002 15:13:54 -0400 Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 15:13:54 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Random thoughts... On 9/2/02 at 5:14 PM David E. Smith wrote: >The Pause is at 3 right now. There's still time for Refresh proposals, if >anyone has any zany ideas. > >I retract my Refresh proposal, by the way. The others out there seem to >have things well in hand. > >I also present the following, which I was gonna mail separately, but then >I realized that the above was only like five lines and there's no point >wasting valuable electrons on a separate email. :-) > >... > >This is an idea, and probably a very bad one. I'll propose it as soon as >Normality has been restored, just so it can be voted down and we can >confirm how incredibly bad an idea it is. > >Actually, Item 1 isn't that bad an idea, but that'll be outdone by Item 2. >In fact, Item 2 will likely cause shock and revulsion. > >{{ __The Worst Thing Since Sliced Bread__ > >This is an A La Carte Proposal. > >Item 1: > >{{ > >Create a new rule: > >{{ __Gold Stars__ > >There exist Objects called Gold Stars. > >Gold Stars may be awarded by the Administrator to any player, at any time. >A player may own any number of Gold Stars. Gold Stars may not be >transferred between players or removed from a player's possession by any >means except those explicitly stated in this rule. This rule takes >precedence over every other rule in this regard. > >Each Gold Star has, associated with it, a Date of Issue. > >At the start of the voting period in the third nweek following the Date of >Issue for a given Gold Star, that Gold Star ceases to exist. > >[[ i.e. whether you get it on 22.1 or 22.9, it'll still expire at 24.8 ]] > >}} > >Replace the text of Rule 212 with the following: > >{{ > >Each player is limited to a maximum of 5 proposals per nweek. This rule >does not apply to any player that has a Gold Star. > >}} > >}} [[ end of item 1 ]] > >[[ and now the REALLLLLLLLY UGLY part... ]] > >Item 2: > >{{ > >Create a new rule: > >{{ __Make Propo$al$ FA$T__ > >Any player may, at any time, pay Five US dollars to the Administrator in >exchange for a Gold Star. The Gold Star shall be issued to the paying >player at the beginning of the nweek following receipt of payment. If >payment is received during the first two days of an nweek, the >Administrator may, at eir discretion, issue the Gold Star immediately. > >Players may purchase Gold Stars on behalf of other players, by requesting >such when payment is made. Players may pay in advance, requesting that >Gold Stars be issued at a specific point in the future, by requesting such >when payment is made. > >}} > >Append the following to Rule 206 [[ Garbage Collection ]] : > >{{ > >This rule does not apply to any player that has a Gold Star. > >}} > >Append the following to the second paragraph of Rule 205 [[ Leaves of >Absence ]] : > >{{ > >A player that has a Gold Star may not be placed on Forced Leave. E may >still voluntarily choose to go On Leave. > >}} > >Append the following to the end of the list in Rule 26 [[ New Players ]] : > >{{ > >One Gold Star, issued as of the date e became a Player > >}} > >}} [[ end of item 2 ]] > >}} I'm not totally repulsed by this, but I think it needs work. I don't for= example agree with being able to spend RL money to submit an infinite= number of proposals, since proposals give points and points give victory.= I object to being able to buy victory in a Nomic game. Other things, though, like garbage collection, might be negotiable. I'd= suggest buying time (the Everquest model) rather than lifetime membership. Glotmorf From dave@technopagan.org Mon, 2 Sep 2002 23:36:05 +0000 (GMT) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 23:36:05 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] Random thoughts... On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Glotmorf wrote: > I'm not totally repulsed by this, but I think it needs work. You're not? Damn. I'll have to try harder. :-) > I don't > for example agree with being able to spend RL money to submit an > infinite number of proposals, since proposals give points and points > give victory. Nope, *good* proposals give points. Stupid proposals just waste everyone's time, and cost points when they're failed. > Other things, though, like garbage collection, might be negotiable. > I'd suggest buying time (the Everquest model) rather than lifetime > membership. That was actually the intent -- that's why Gold Stars expire after three nweeks. The "Garbage Collection" clause was just an afterthought, really. Proposals and new rules are easily the most time-consuming thing in this game (especially since, once sanity is restored, we have ministers for a lot of the minor details). The idea, roughly, is that everyone can have a bit of my finite supply of time for free (i.e. 5 proposals per nweek, unless your name is Glotmorf and you invent massively complex rules to avoid this limitation *cough*m-tek*cough*); if you're willing to compensate me in a very minimal manner, you can have some more of my time. It was something I came up with at work yesterday, wrote down on a legal pad, and probably should have thrown away on the spot. But, at least, it'll hopefully spur some discussion... ...dave From mhaywood383@hotmail.com Mon, 02 Sep 2002 21:08:49 -0400 Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 21:08:49 -0400 From: Mark Haywood mhaywood383@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Random thoughts... >The Pause is at 3 right now. There's still time for Refresh proposals, if >anyone has any zany ideas. > >I retract my Refresh proposal, by the way. The others out there seem to >have things well in hand. > >I also present the following, which I was gonna mail separately, but then >I realized that the above was only like five lines and there's no point >wasting valuable electrons on a separate email. :-) > >... > >This is an idea, and probably a very bad one. I'll propose it as soon as >Normality has been restored, just so it can be voted down and we can >confirm how incredibly bad an idea it is. > >Actually, Item 1 isn't that bad an idea, but that'll be outdone by Item 2. >In fact, Item 2 will likely cause shock and revulsion. > >{{ __The Worst Thing Since Sliced Bread__ > >This is an A La Carte Proposal. > >Item 1: > >{{ > >Create a new rule: > >{{ __Gold Stars__ > >There exist Objects called Gold Stars. > >Gold Stars may be awarded by the Administrator to any player, at any time. >A player may own any number of Gold Stars. Gold Stars may not be >transferred between players or removed from a player's possession by any >means except those explicitly stated in this rule. This rule takes >precedence over every other rule in this regard. > >Each Gold Star has, associated with it, a Date of Issue. > >At the start of the voting period in the third nweek following the Date of >Issue for a given Gold Star, that Gold Star ceases to exist. > >[[ i.e. whether you get it on 22.1 or 22.9, it'll still expire at 24.8 ]] > >}} > >Replace the text of Rule 212 with the following: > >{{ > >Each player is limited to a maximum of 5 proposals per nweek. This rule >does not apply to any player that has a Gold Star. > >}} > >}} [[ end of item 1 ]] > >[[ and now the REALLLLLLLLY UGLY part... ]] > >Item 2: > >{{ > >Create a new rule: > >{{ __Make Propo$al$ FA$T__ > >Any player may, at any time, pay Five US dollars to the Administrator in >exchange for a Gold Star. The Gold Star shall be issued to the paying >player at the beginning of the nweek following receipt of payment. If >payment is received during the first two days of an nweek, the >Administrator may, at eir discretion, issue the Gold Star immediately. > >Players may purchase Gold Stars on behalf of other players, by requesting >such when payment is made. Players may pay in advance, requesting that >Gold Stars be issued at a specific point in the future, by requesting such >when payment is made. > >}} > >Append the following to Rule 206 [[ Garbage Collection ]] : > >{{ > >This rule does not apply to any player that has a Gold Star. > >}} > >Append the following to the second paragraph of Rule 205 [[ Leaves of >Absence ]] : > >{{ > >A player that has a Gold Star may not be placed on Forced Leave. E may >still voluntarily choose to go On Leave. > >}} > >Append the following to the end of the list in Rule 26 [[ New Players ]] : > >{{ > >One Gold Star, issued as of the date e became a Player > >}} > >}} [[ end of item 2 ]] > >}} > You're either genius or mad. I can't decide. Either way, although I might support this for the hell of it, I'm not paying you $5 for a Gold Star. ________________________________________________________________________ Mithrandir _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Mon, 02 Sep 2002 21:44:53 -0400 Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 21:44:53 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Random thoughts... >The Pause is at 3 right now. There's still time for Refresh proposals, if >anyone has any zany ideas. > >I retract my Refresh proposal, by the way. The others out there seem to >have things well in hand. > >I also present the following, which I was gonna mail separately, but then >I realized that the above was only like five lines and there's no point >wasting valuable electrons on a separate email. :-) > >... > >This is an idea, and probably a very bad one. I'll propose it as soon as >Normality has been restored, just so it can be voted down and we can >confirm how incredibly bad an idea it is. > >Actually, Item 1 isn't that bad an idea, but that'll be outdone by Item 2. >In fact, Item 2 will likely cause shock and revulsion. > >{{ __The Worst Thing Since Sliced Bread__ > >This is an A La Carte Proposal. > >Item 1: > >{{ > >Create a new rule: > >{{ __Gold Stars__ > >There exist Objects called Gold Stars. > >Gold Stars may be awarded by the Administrator to any player, at any time. >A player may own any number of Gold Stars. Gold Stars may not be >transferred between players or removed from a player's possession by any >means except those explicitly stated in this rule. This rule takes >precedence over every other rule in this regard. > >Each Gold Star has, associated with it, a Date of Issue. > >At the start of the voting period in the third nweek following the Date of >Issue for a given Gold Star, that Gold Star ceases to exist. > >[[ i.e. whether you get it on 22.1 or 22.9, it'll still expire at 24.8 ]] > >}} > >Replace the text of Rule 212 with the following: > >{{ > >Each player is limited to a maximum of 5 proposals per nweek. This rule >does not apply to any player that has a Gold Star. > >}} > >}} [[ end of item 1 ]] -Well, that seems innocuous enough... but...- > >[[ and now the REALLLLLLLLY UGLY part... ]] > >Item 2: > >{{ > >Create a new rule: > >{{ __Make Propo$al$ FA$T__ > >Any player may, at any time, pay Five US dollars to the Administrator in >exchange for a Gold Star. The Gold Star shall be issued to the paying >player at the beginning of the nweek following receipt of payment. If >payment is received during the first two days of an nweek, the >Administrator may, at eir discretion, issue the Gold Star immediately. > >Players may purchase Gold Stars on behalf of other players, by requesting >such when payment is made. Players may pay in advance, requesting that >Gold Stars be issued at a specific point in the future, by requesting such >when payment is made. > >}} > >Append the following to Rule 206 [[ Garbage Collection ]] : > >{{ > >This rule does not apply to any player that has a Gold Star. > >}} > >Append the following to the second paragraph of Rule 205 [[ Leaves of >Absence ]] : > >{{ > >A player that has a Gold Star may not be placed on Forced Leave. E may >still voluntarily choose to go On Leave. > >}} > >Append the following to the end of the list in Rule 26 [[ New Players ]] : > >{{ > >One Gold Star, issued as of the date e became a Player > >}} > >}} [[ end of item 2 ]] > >}} > -Absolutely not. No no no no no. Paying for extra bandwidth is a Bad Thing ((C) Voice, 2002). Not for you- it's an inspired idea, really- but for players who don't have that many proposal ideas, it's disaster. For example, I can see Wonko spending a couple of weeks planning 20 proposals and redoing the Game in one nweek for the low cost of $5. Not cool. I don't like the extended time thing either. As is, discounting /this/ nweek, 3 nweeks is about 40 days. You can't do anything in this game in 40 days, you're either dead or not playing any more. Or both. I do think the basic idea of Gold Stars- their existence- has merit, though...- [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Mon, 02 Sep 2002 22:25:56 -0400 Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 22:25:56 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Random thoughts... Quoth David E. Smith, > The Pause is at 3 right now. There's still time for Refresh proposals, if > anyone has any zany ideas. > > I retract my Refresh proposal, by the way. The others out there seem to > have things well in hand. > > I also present the following, which I was gonna mail separately, but then > I realized that the above was only like five lines and there's no point > wasting valuable electrons on a separate email. :-) > > ... > > This is an idea, and probably a very bad one. I'll propose it as soon as > Normality has been restored, just so it can be voted down and we can > confirm how incredibly bad an idea it is. > > Actually, Item 1 isn't that bad an idea, but that'll be outdone by Item 2. > In fact, Item 2 will likely cause shock and revulsion. > > {{ __The Worst Thing Since Sliced Bread__ > > This is an A La Carte Proposal. > > Item 1: > > {{ > > Create a new rule: > > {{ __Gold Stars__ > > There exist Objects called Gold Stars. > > Gold Stars may be awarded by the Administrator to any player, at any time. > A player may own any number of Gold Stars. Gold Stars may not be > transferred between players or removed from a player's possession by any > means except those explicitly stated in this rule. This rule takes > precedence over every other rule in this regard. > > Each Gold Star has, associated with it, a Date of Issue. > > At the start of the voting period in the third nweek following the Date of > Issue for a given Gold Star, that Gold Star ceases to exist. > > [[ i.e. whether you get it on 22.1 or 22.9, it'll still expire at 24.8 ]] > > }} > > Replace the text of Rule 212 with the following: > > {{ > > Each player is limited to a maximum of 5 proposals per nweek. This rule > does not apply to any player that has a Gold Star. > > }} > > }} [[ end of item 1 ]] > > [[ and now the REALLLLLLLLY UGLY part... ]] > > Item 2: > > {{ > > Create a new rule: > > {{ __Make Propo$al$ FA$T__ > > Any player may, at any time, pay Five US dollars to the Administrator in > exchange for a Gold Star. The Gold Star shall be issued to the paying > player at the beginning of the nweek following receipt of payment. If > payment is received during the first two days of an nweek, the > Administrator may, at eir discretion, issue the Gold Star immediately. > > Players may purchase Gold Stars on behalf of other players, by requesting > such when payment is made. Players may pay in advance, requesting that > Gold Stars be issued at a specific point in the future, by requesting such > when payment is made. > > }} > > Append the following to Rule 206 [[ Garbage Collection ]] : > > {{ > > This rule does not apply to any player that has a Gold Star. > > }} > > Append the following to the second paragraph of Rule 205 [[ Leaves of > Absence ]] : > > {{ > > A player that has a Gold Star may not be placed on Forced Leave. E may > still voluntarily choose to go On Leave. > > }} > > Append the following to the end of the list in Rule 26 [[ New Players ]] : > > {{ > > One Gold Star, issued as of the date e became a Player > > }} > > }} [[ end of item 2 ]] > > }} And... um... how exactly do we go about paying you $5? Does this mean that I have to physically travel to you with $5? If you're really worried about being overwhelmed by the game, might in not be possible to design some system for allowing a Minister of Proposals? -- Wonko From dave@technopagan.org Thu, 5 Sep 2002 01:40:13 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 01:40:13 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Daily Recognizer (Wednesday evening) The Pause has reached 5. There are two active Refresh Proposals, authored by bd and Wonko. They're on the Web site. The following proposals are un-recognized: p990 (bd is over the Bandwidth limit) p991 (apparently never was a real proposal) spoon-business@nomic.net is now a Public Forum. bnomic-private@ysolde.ucam.org will be a Public Forum for another couple days, then I'll make it no longer so. Plan ahead. ...dave -- David E. Smith http://www.technopagan.org/ http://metadave.net/ "You know I don't approve of violence ... but these ARE deadly robots!" From mcfoufou@umich.edu Thu, 5 Sep 2002 01:11:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 01:11:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeremy "Athena" Cook mcfoufou@umich.edu Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Daily Recognizer (Wednesday evening) I vote for bd's Refresh Proposal. Athena <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> "All our belief systems, religions, and governments are the result of a series of mistakes that turned out to be better at making copies of themselves after all." -Richard Brodie http://www.memecentral.com/Level3.htm "We look at the world through windows on which have been drawn grids (concepts). Different philosophies use different grids. A culture is a group of people with rather similar grids. Through a window we view chaos, and relate it to the points on our grid, and thereby understand it. The ORDER is in the GRID." -The Principia Discordia <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Jeremy Cook The Goddess Athena mcfoufou@umich.edu From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Thu, 05 Sep 2002 07:02:04 -0400 Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 07:02:04 -0400 From: Daniel Lepage dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Daily Recognizer (Wednesday evening) Quoth David E. Smith, > The Pause has reached 5. > > There are two active Refresh Proposals, authored by bd and Wonko. They're > on the Web site. > > The following proposals are un-recognized: > > p990 (bd is over the Bandwidth limit) > p991 (apparently never was a real proposal) > > spoon-business@nomic.net is now a Public Forum. > bnomic-private@ysolde.ucam.org will be a Public Forum for another couple > days, then I'll make it no longer so. Plan ahead. I vote for my refresh proposal -- Wonko From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Thu, 5 Sep 2002 14:51:45 -0400 Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 14:51:45 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Daily Recognizer (Wednesday evening) On Wednesday 04 September 2002 09:40 pm, David E. Smith wrote: > The Pause has reached 5. > > There are two active Refresh Proposals, authored by bd and Wonko. They'= re > on the Web site. > > The following proposals are un-recognized: > > p990 (bd is over the Bandwidth limit) [[Remind me, which one was that? I'll resubmit next nweek.]] > p991 (apparently never was a real proposal) > > spoon-business@nomic.net is now a Public Forum. [[About freakin time...]] > bnomic-private@ysolde.ucam.org will be a Public Forum for another coupl= e > days, then I'll make it no longer so. Plan ahead. > > ...dave > > > > -- David E. Smith http://www.technopagan.org/ http://metadave.net/ > "You know I don't approve of violence ... but these ARE deadly robots!" > > > > _______________________________________________ > BNomic-Private mailing list > BNomic-Private@ysolde.ucam.org > http://www.ysolde.ucam.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bnomic-private --=20 bd I cannot conceive that anybody will require multiplications at the rate of 40,000 or even 4,000 per hour ... =09=09-- F. H. Wales (1936) From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Thu, 05 Sep 2002 16:58:21 -0400 Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 16:58:21 -0400 From: Daniel Lepage dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Daily Recognizer (Wednesday evening) Quoth David E. Smith, > The Pause has reached 5. > > There are two active Refresh Proposals, authored by bd and Wonko. They're > on the Web site. > > The following proposals are un-recognized: > > p990 (bd is over the Bandwidth limit) > p991 (apparently never was a real proposal) > > spoon-business@nomic.net is now a Public Forum. > bnomic-private@ysolde.ucam.org will be a Public Forum for another couple > days, then I'll make it no longer so. Plan ahead. When you make spoon-business a public forum, is that because you think Joel will be back shortly, or because you just don't like using bnomic-private? What I mean is, is Joel coming back soon? -- Wonko From mhaywood383@hotmail.com Thu, 05 Sep 2002 21:02:14 -0400 Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 21:02:14 -0400 From: Mark Haywood mhaywood383@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Refresh Props I vote for Wonko's Refresh proposal. ________________________________________________________________________ Mithrandir _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From dave@technopagan.org Fri, 6 Sep 2002 01:33:00 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 01:33:00 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Daily Recognizer (Wednesday evening) On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Daniel Lepage wrote: > When you make spoon-business a public forum, is that because you think Joel > will be back shortly, or because you just don't like using bnomic-private? > What I mean is, is Joel coming back soon? Joel's already back, in a sense. His computer is back online, and if you connect to its IP address, you can get the nomic.net Web site, and all that other good stuff. It's just a matter of waiting for the DNS to get caught up. ...dave From nomicvoice0@hotmail.com Thu, 05 Sep 2002 22:32:49 -0400 Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 22:32:49 -0400 From: The Voice nomicvoice0@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] refresh I vote for Wonko's refresh proposal. -0-THE VOICE-0- _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Thu, 05 Sep 2002 22:38:42 -0400 Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 22:38:42 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Daily Recognizer (Wednesday evening) > > When you make spoon-business a public forum, is that because you think >Joel > > will be back shortly, or because you just don't like using >bnomic-private? > > What I mean is, is Joel coming back soon? > >Joel's already back, in a sense. > >His computer is back online, and if you connect to its IP address, you can >get the nomic.net Web site, and all that other good stuff. It's just a >matter of waiting for the DNS to get caught up. > >...dave > > -[[Well, some things are back, and some aren't... spoon-discuss and spoon-business are not working as far as I can tell.]] I vote for Wonko's refresh prop.- [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From squire_of_dimness@sbcglobal.net Fri, 6 Sep 2002 01:58:25 -0500 Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 01:58:25 -0500 From: Joshua Caudle squire_of_dimness@sbcglobal.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Daily Recognizer (Wednesday evening) ----- Original Message ----- From: "David E. Smith" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 8:40 PM Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Daily Recognizer (Wednesday evening) > The Pause has reached 5. > > There are two active Refresh Proposals, authored by bd and Wonko. They're > on the Web site. > Voting for Wonko's refresh prop. From squire_of_dimness@sbcglobal.net Fri, 6 Sep 2002 02:25:17 -0500 Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 02:25:17 -0500 From: Joshua Caudle squire_of_dimness@sbcglobal.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Judgement on CFI 977 I judge False on CFI 977. Analysis: In part A Orc attempts to resaon that because f the inclusivity of the language provided by rule 503, rule 636 has no application, however, rule 33 states "each rule has an attribute called Chutzpah, which is a positive integer, in the event of a conflict between two or more rules, the tiule with the highest Chutzpah takes precedence." therefore since rule 636 has a chutzpah of 2 and rule 503 only has a chutzpah of 1. it is illegal to remove from players items in eir possession. this therefore makes all other parts of said arguement moot. However: I myself am placing a call for inquiry on this same action. Statement: Any player according to the rulset as of nweek 22 nday 5 may drinka glass of Champagne by simply announcing that the action in taking place in a public forum. if no particular glass is stated in said proclamation, the admistrator must choose an otherwise unclaimed glasss of Champagne for the player to drink. If no such glasses exist the administrator must create said glass. Argument: Rule 503 in nweek 22 does not state that a glass must be in a player's possesion inorder for the player to drink said glass. However since Rule 636 has greater Chutzpah athan Rule 503 the glass cannot be in the possession of another player. Therefore it si the duty of the adminisytrator to selecta legal glass for consumption as stated in Rule 25. If no appropiate glasses are currently available, Rule 25 would also plae the onus of creating said glass on the administrator. From glotmorf@earthlink.net Fri, 06 Sep 2002 07:35:14 -0400 Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 07:35:14 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Judgement on CFI 977 On 9/6/02 at 2:25 AM Joshua Caudle wrote: >I judge False on CFI 977. > >Analysis: In part A Orc attempts to resaon that because f the inclusivity >of the language provided by rule 503, rule 636 has no application, >however, >rule 33 states "each rule has an attribute called Chutzpah, which is a >positive integer, in the event of a conflict between two or more rules,= the >tiule with the highest Chutzpah takes precedence." therefore since rule >636 >has a chutzpah of 2 and rule 503 only has a chutzpah of 1. it is illegal= to >remove from players items in eir possession. this therefore makes all= other >parts of said arguement moot. > >However: >I myself am placing a call for inquiry on this same action. > >Statement: Any player according to the rulset as of nweek 22 nday 5 may >drinka glass of Champagne by simply announcing that the action in taking >place in a public forum. if no particular glass is stated in said >proclamation, the admistrator must choose an otherwise unclaimed glasss of >Champagne for the player to drink. If no such glasses exist the >administrator must create said glass. > >Argument: >Rule 503 in nweek 22 does not state that a glass must be in a player's >possesion inorder for the player to drink said glass. However since Rule >636 >has greater Chutzpah athan Rule 503 the glass cannot be in the possession >of >another player. Therefore it si the duty of the adminisytrator to selecta >legal glass for consumption as stated in Rule 25. If no appropiate glasses >are currently available, Rule 25 would also plae the onus of creating said >glass on the administrator. This was handled by an earlier CFI. Since a glass of champagne is an alcoholic beverage, and since there is a= rule providing for the creation of generic alcoholic beverages, the= creation of glasses of champagne is regulated. Since it is regulated,= there can be no not-explicitly-rule-stated procedure for the creation of a= glass of champagne. Rule 25 doesn't apply in this case. The creation of a glass of champagne= isn't a duty not assigned to other players. It's a gamestate change, and= that's managed by the administrator already. How many times are we gonna spank this puppy? Glotmorf From squire_of_dimness@sbcglobal.net Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:51:22 -0500 Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:51:22 -0500 From: Joshua Caudle squire_of_dimness@sbcglobal.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Judgement on CFI 977 >On 9/6/02 at 2:25 AM Joshua Caudle wrote: > >>I judge False on CFI 977. >> >>Analysis: In part A Orc attempts to resaon that because f the inclusivity >>of the language provided by rule 503, rule 636 has no application, >>however, >>rule 33 states "each rule has an attribute called Chutzpah, which is a >>positive integer, in the event of a conflict between two or more rules, the >>tiule with the highest Chutzpah takes precedence." therefore since rule >>636 >>has a chutzpah of 2 and rule 503 only has a chutzpah of 1. it is illegal to >>remove from players items in eir possession. this therefore makes all other >>parts of said arguement moot. >> >>However: >>I myself am placing a call for inquiry on this same action. >> >>Statement: Any player according to the rulset as of nweek 22 nday 5 may >>drink a glass of Champagne by simply announcing that the action in taking >>place in a public forum. if no particular glass is stated in said >>proclamation, the admistrator must choose an otherwise unclaimed glasss of >>Champagne for the player to drink. If no such glasses exist the >>administrator must create said glass. >> >>Argument: >>Rule 503 in nweek 22 does not state that a glass must be in a player's >>possesion inorder for the player to drink said glass. However since Rule >>636 >>has greater Chutzpah athan Rule 503 the glass cannot be in the possession >>of >>another player. Therefore it si the duty of the administrator to select a >>legal glass for consumption as stated in Rule 25. If no appropiate glasses >>are currently available, Rule 25 would also plae the onus of creating said >>glass on the administrator. > >This was handled by an earlier CFI. hey you have to remember I haven't been here that long and there's no cfi's even remotely pertaining to this quiestion currently in the DB I did the research and this seems to go along with the ruleset. >Since a glass of champagne is an alcoholic beverage, and since there is a rule providing >for the creation of generic alcoholic beverages, the creation of glasses of champagne is >regulated. Since it is regulated, there can be no not-explicitly-rule-stated procedure >for the creation of a glass of champagne. unfortunately after scanning the current ruleset for all rules regarding alcoholic beverages, including the gnome rules each rule containing information about alcoholic beverages states informaiton about specific alcoholic beverages except fotr the effects of intoxication rule whihc simply gives you the specifics of how BAC works. all other beverage rules state the the drink must be in the possesion of hte player in order to be drank. and under the permissibility of the unprohibited rule this would mean that since it is not specifically profhibited by the rules, it is therefore permissable. and if I'm wrong please pouint me in the correct direction... >Rule 25 doesn't apply in this case. The creation of a glass of champagne isn't a duty >not assigned to other players. It's a gamestate change, and that's managed by the >administrator already. even if it is a change in gamestate, all rules regarding gamestate do not otherwise prohibitthe admin form changing hte gamestate in said manner thusly under hte permissibility of the unprohibited rule stands. >How many times are we gonna spank this puppy? as long as it takes to get the point across so that the loophole can be recognisedand dealt wiht appropriately. -Squire *feeling generally defiant* _______________________________________________ BNomic-Private mailing list BNomic-Private@ysolde.ucam.org http://www.ysolde.ucam.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bnomic-private From glotmorf@earthlink.net Fri, 06 Sep 2002 14:13:06 -0400 Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 14:13:06 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Judgement on CFI 977 On 9/6/02 at 11:51 AM Joshua Caudle wrote: >>On 9/6/02 at 2:25 AM Joshua Caudle wrote: >> >>>I judge False on CFI 977. >>> >>>Analysis: In part A Orc attempts to resaon that because f the >inclusivity >>>of the language provided by rule 503, rule 636 has no application, >>>however, >>>rule 33 states "each rule has an attribute called Chutzpah, which is a >>>positive integer, in the event of a conflict between two or more rules, >the >>>tiule with the highest Chutzpah takes precedence." therefore since rule >>>636 >>>has a chutzpah of 2 and rule 503 only has a chutzpah of 1. it is illegal >to >>>remove from players items in eir possession. this therefore makes all >other >>>parts of said arguement moot. >>> >>>However: >>>I myself am placing a call for inquiry on this same action. >>> >>>Statement: Any player according to the rulset as of nweek 22 nday 5 may >>>drink a glass of Champagne by simply announcing that the action in= taking >>>place in a public forum. if no particular glass is stated in said >>>proclamation, the admistrator must choose an otherwise unclaimed glasss >of >>>Champagne for the player to drink. If no such glasses exist the >>>administrator must create said glass. >>> >>>Argument: >>>Rule 503 in nweek 22 does not state that a glass must be in a player's >>>possesion inorder for the player to drink said glass. However since Rule >>>636 >>>has greater Chutzpah athan Rule 503 the glass cannot be in the= possession >>>of >>>another player. Therefore it si the duty of the administrator to select= a >>>legal glass for consumption as stated in Rule 25. If no appropiate >glasses >>>are currently available, Rule 25 would also plae the onus of creating >said >>>glass on the administrator. >> >>This was handled by an earlier CFI. > >hey you have to remember I haven't been here that long and there's no= cfi's >even remotely pertaining to this quiestion currently in the DB I did the >research and this seems to go along with the ruleset. > >>Since a glass of champagne is an alcoholic beverage, and since there is a >rule providing >for the creation of generic alcoholic beverages, the >creation of glasses of champagne is >regulated. Since it is regulated, >there can be no not-explicitly-rule-stated procedure >for the creation of= a >glass of champagne. > >unfortunately after scanning the current ruleset for all rules regarding >alcoholic beverages, including the gnome rules each rule containing >information about alcoholic beverages states informaiton about specific >alcoholic beverages except fotr the effects of intoxication rule whihc >simply gives you the specifics of how BAC works. all other beverage rules >state the the drink must be in the possesion of hte player in order to be >drank. and under the permissibility of the unprohibited rule this would >mean >that since it is not specifically profhibited by the rules, it is= therefore >permissable. and if I'm wrong please pouint me in the correct direction... > >>Rule 25 doesn't apply in this case. The creation of a glass of champagne >isn't a duty >not assigned to other players. It's a gamestate change,= and >that's managed by the >administrator already. > >even if it is a change in gamestate, all rules regarding gamestate do not >otherwise prohibitthe admin form changing hte gamestate in said manner >thusly under hte permissibility of the unprohibited rule stands. > >>How many times are we gonna spank this puppy? > >as long as it takes to get the point across so that the loophole can be >recognisedand dealt wiht appropriately. > >-Squire >*feeling generally defiant* Rule 502: "The first nday of each nyear is New nYear's nDay. To mark the New nYear= each player may post a message in a public forum requesting one alcoholic= beverage of their choice. E then receive one unit of this beverage, which= must be rule defined, regardless of any restrictions other rules may= specify on the creation of such items. A player may only request their= free alcoholic beverage during the first nweek of the nyear." It ain't much, but it does allow for the creation of generic alcoholic= beverages. Which means if there isn't a place in the rules that says= specifically how one can acquire, for example, a Mike's Hard Lemonade,= even though there's rules for what one does if it's consumed, then= creation of Mike's Hard Lemonade is still regulated: you can only get them= once a nyear. Aside from that, there's now Rule 441.B.20, Champagne Gnomes, which says= glasses of champagne can be created by squeezing the appropriate gnome.= This is actually more recent than r502; r502 was the basis for the= judgment on the original CFI. Either way, the creation of glasses of= champagne is regulated, and therefore not permitted as an ad-hoc event= under r18. Glotmorf From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:57:43 -0400 Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:57:43 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Judgement on CFI 977 On Friday 06 September 2002 12:51 pm, Joshua Caudle wrote: > even if it is a change in gamestate, all rules regarding gamestate do n= ot > otherwise prohibitthe admin form changing hte gamestate in said manner > thusly under hte permissibility of the unprohibited rule stands. > > >How many times are we gonna spank this puppy? > > as long as it takes to get the point across so that the loophole can be > recognisedand dealt wiht appropriately. > > -Squire > *feeling generally defiant* [[ Please don't type under the influence. ;) ]] --=20 bd A Law of Computer Programming: =09Make it possible for programmers to write in English =09and you will find that programmers cannot write in English. From squire_of_dimness@sbcglobal.net Sun, 8 Sep 2002 01:23:22 -0500 Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 01:23:22 -0500 From: Joshua Caudle squire_of_dimness@sbcglobal.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Judgement on CFI 977 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glotmorf" To: Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [Bnomic-private] Judgement on CFI 977 On 9/6/02 at 11:51 AM Joshua Caudle wrote: >>On 9/6/02 at 2:25 AM Joshua Caudle wrote: >> >>>I judge False on CFI 977. >>> >>>Analysis: In part A Orc attempts to resaon that because f the >inclusivity >>>of the language provided by rule 503, rule 636 has no application, >>>however, >>>rule 33 states "each rule has an attribute called Chutzpah, which is a >>>positive integer, in the event of a conflict between two or more rules, >the >>>tiule with the highest Chutzpah takes precedence." therefore since rule >>>636 >>>has a chutzpah of 2 and rule 503 only has a chutzpah of 1. it is illegal >to >>>remove from players items in eir possession. this therefore makes all >other >>>parts of said arguement moot. >>> >>>However: >>>I myself am placing a call for inquiry on this same action. >>> >>>Statement: Any player according to the rulset as of nweek 22 nday 5 may >>>drink a glass of Champagne by simply announcing that the action in taking >>>place in a public forum. if no particular glass is stated in said >>>proclamation, the admistrator must choose an otherwise unclaimed glasss >of >>>Champagne for the player to drink. If no such glasses exist the >>>administrator must create said glass. >>> >>>Argument: >>>Rule 503 in nweek 22 does not state that a glass must be in a player's >>>possesion inorder for the player to drink said glass. However since Rule >>>636 >>>has greater Chutzpah athan Rule 503 the glass cannot be in the possession >>>of >>>another player. Therefore it si the duty of the administrator to select a >>>legal glass for consumption as stated in Rule 25. If no appropiate >glasses >>>are currently available, Rule 25 would also plae the onus of creating >said >>>glass on the administrator. >> >>This was handled by an earlier CFI. > >hey you have to remember I haven't been here that long and there's no cfi's >even remotely pertaining to this quiestion currently in the DB I did the >research and this seems to go along with the ruleset. > >>Since a glass of champagne is an alcoholic beverage, and since there is a >rule providing >for the creation of generic alcoholic beverages, the >creation of glasses of champagne is >regulated. Since it is regulated, >there can be no not-explicitly-rule-stated procedure >for the creation of a >glass of champagne. > >unfortunately after scanning the current ruleset for all rules regarding >alcoholic beverages, including the gnome rules each rule containing >information about alcoholic beverages states informaiton about specific >alcoholic beverages except fotr the effects of intoxication rule whihc >simply gives you the specifics of how BAC works. all other beverage rules >state the the drink must be in the possesion of hte player in order to be >drank. and under the permissibility of the unprohibited rule this would >mean >that since it is not specifically profhibited by the rules, it is therefore >permissable. and if I'm wrong please pouint me in the correct direction... > >>Rule 25 doesn't apply in this case. The creation of a glass of champagne >isn't a duty >not assigned to other players. It's a gamestate change, and >that's managed by the >administrator already. > >even if it is a change in gamestate, all rules regarding gamestate do not >otherwise prohibitthe admin form changing hte gamestate in said manner >thusly under hte permissibility of the unprohibited rule stands. > >>How many times are we gonna spank this puppy? > >as long as it takes to get the point across so that the loophole can be >recognisedand dealt wiht appropriately. > >-Squire >*feeling generally defiant* Rule 502: "The first nday of each nyear is New nYear's nDay. To mark the New nYear each player may post a message in a public forum requesting one alcoholic beverage of their choice. E then receive one unit of this beverage, which must be rule defined, regardless of any restrictions other rules may specify on the creation of such items. A player may only request their free alcoholic beverage during the first nweek of the nyear." It ain't much, but it does allow for the creation of generic alcoholic beverages. Which means if there isn't a place in the rules that says specifically how one can acquire, for example, a Mike's Hard Lemonade, even though there's rules for what one does if it's consumed, then creation of Mike's Hard Lemonade is still regulated: you can only get them once a nyear. Aside from that, there's now Rule 441.B.20, Champagne Gnomes, which says glasses of champagne can be created by squeezing the appropriate gnome. This is actually more recent than r502; r502 was the basis for the judgment on the original CFI. Either way, the creation of glasses of champagne is regulated, and therefore not permitted as an ad-hoc event under r18. Glotmorf thanks Glotmorf, this is the typpe of clarification I needed I'd forgotten about the New nYear's nDay rule...I am a newbie, nuances of the ruleset can be kinda challenging... thusly why I eaerly read my mail...esp since no one else sends me anything.... -Squire From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Sun, 8 Sep 2002 12:09:39 -0400 Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 12:09:39 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Judgement on CFI 977 On Sunday 08 September 2002 02:23 am, Joshua Caudle wrote: > Rule 502: > > "The first nday of each nyear is New nYear's nDay. To mark the New nYea= r > each player may post a message in a public forum requesting one alcohol= ic > beverage of their choice. E then receive one unit of this beverage, whi= ch > must be rule defined, regardless of any restrictions other rules may > specify on the creation of such items. A player may only request their = free > alcoholic beverage during the first nweek of the nyear." > > It ain't much, but it does allow for the creation of generic alcoholic > beverages. Which means if there isn't a place in the rules that says > specifically how one can acquire, for example, a Mike's Hard Lemonade, = even > though there's rules for what one does if it's consumed, then creation = of > Mike's Hard Lemonade is still regulated: you can only get them once a > nyear. That ain't defined in the rules. reread 502. --=20 bd Your lucky number is 3552664958674928. Watch for it everywhere. From dave@technopagan.org Mon, 9 Sep 2002 00:19:30 +0000 (GMT) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 00:19:30 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Daily Recognizer (Sunday evening) Wonko's Refresh proposal won by four or five votes. It shall be implemented as soon as is feasible. Then there'll be nweek 22 voting, then another three days off due to the Entropy boomboom. Then maybe we can get back to normal. ...dave -- David E. Smith http://www.technopagan.org/ http://metadave.net/ "You know I don't approve of violence ... but these ARE deadly robots!" From dave@technopagan.org Wed, 11 Sep 2002 04:12:26 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 04:12:26 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] NWEEK 22 BALLOT The following measures are on the ballot for nweek 22: Proposal 943/0: Precipitation (The Voice) Proposal 951/1: Cleaning Up After Wonko's Cleanup (M-Tek) Proposal 952/0: Nweek 22 Insta-Prop (House Grem) Proposal 953/0: Cleaning Up (bd) Proposal 954/0: Insider trading is illegal (bd) Proposal 955/0: Nseasons, v.2 (The Voice) Proposal 956/0: He Had Killer Charm. Well... Winning Charm (The Voice) Proposal 957/0: Less is More: The Ruleset (bd) Proposal 958/3: Wealth Control (Athena) Proposal 959/0: A Little More: Ministries (The Administrator) Proposal 960/0: What the Hell is an Agent? (Mithrandir) Proposal 961/0: Yesterday's News (Mithrandir) Proposal 962/0: Solving one of the Quest's Problems (Mithrandir) Proposal 963/0: Oh Yes, You'll Pay (Mithrandir) Proposal 964/0: There was Something Else... Oh Yeah, a Scapegoat! (Mithrandir) Proposal 965/0: Night of the Living Dead Stock Market (M-Tek) Proposal 966/1: Graves, Make That my New Motto (Baron von Skippy) Proposal 967/1: Healthy Competition, My Ass (Baron von Skippy) Proposal 968/1: And now, the Dramatic Conclusion (Baron von Skippy) Proposal 969/4: The Game is Afoot! I'll Take "Anal Bum Covers" for 7,000 (Baron von Skippy) Proposal 970/0: Eddie's in the Space-Time Continuum (Baron von Skippy) Proposal 971/1: untitled champagne proposal (Squire of Dimness) Proposal 972/0: Marching through Wall Street (Glotmorf) Proposal 973/0: Public Exposure (Glotmorf) Proposal 974/0: Bad Dog! (Orc In a Spacesuit) Proposal 975/0: Towel Racks (bd) Proposal 976/0: These Titles Ought To Last (Orc In a Spacesuit) Proposal 978/0: Can't Touch This (Orc In a Spacesuit) Proposal 979/0: This Wasn't In My Job Description... (Glotmorf) Proposal 980/0: A bit of Exorc. (Wonko) Proposal 981/0: A bit more Exorc. (Wonko) Proposal 982/0: A little more (Wonko) Proposal 983/0: And finally... (Wonko) Proposal 984/0: Fixing the Stock Market (Wonko) Proposal 985/0: Ambassador Biweekly (Athena) Proposal 986/0: The World is An Atheist's Temple (Athena) Proposal 987/0: Lord of the Stock Scam (Athena) Proposal 989/0: Mutations BAD! Krunk smash! (bd) From dave@technopagan.org Wed, 11 Sep 2002 04:11:38 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 04:11:38 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Daily Recognizer (Tuesday evening) Per the passed Refresh Proposal of Wonko, the Clock is reset to nweek 22, nday 8. The Minister of Gnomes is asked to handle bagging everyone's Gnomes. The nweek 22 ballot is (FINALLY) coming, under separate cover. -- David E. Smith http://www.technopagan.org/ http://metadave.net/ "You know I don't approve of violence ... but these ARE deadly robots!" From mcfoufou@umich.edu Wed, 11 Sep 2002 03:22:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 03:22:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeremy "Athena" Cook mcfoufou@umich.edu Subject: [Bnomic-private] NWEEK 22 BALLOT Here are my votes: > Proposal 943/0: Precipitation (The Voice) vote YES > Proposal 951/1: Cleaning Up After Wonko's Cleanup (M-Tek) vote YES > Proposal 952/0: Nweek 22 Insta-Prop (House Grem) vote NO > Proposal 953/0: Cleaning Up (bd) vote NO > Proposal 954/0: Insider trading is illegal (bd) vote NO > Proposal 955/0: Nseasons, v.2 (The Voice) vote NO > Proposal 956/0: He Had Killer Charm. Well... Winning Charm (The Voice) vote NO > Proposal 957/0: Less is More: The Ruleset (bd) how can I not vote YES on this? > Proposal 958/3: Wealth Control (Athena) vote YES > Proposal 959/0: A Little More: Ministries (The Administrator) vote NO > Proposal 960/0: What the Hell is an Agent? (Mithrandir) vote NO > Proposal 961/0: Yesterday's News (Mithrandir) vote YES > Proposal 962/0: Solving one of the Quest's Problems (Mithrandir) vote NO > Proposal 963/0: Oh Yes, You'll Pay (Mithrandir) vote NO > Proposal 964/0: There was Something Else... Oh Yeah, a Scapegoat! (Mithrandir) vote YES > Proposal 965/0: Night of the Living Dead Stock Market (M-Tek) vote NO > Proposal 966/1: Graves, Make That my New Motto (Baron von Skippy) vote YES > Proposal 967/1: Healthy Competition, My Ass (Baron von Skippy) vote YES > Proposal 968/1: And now, the Dramatic Conclusion (Baron von Skippy) YES, of course. Hook me up with one of those drinks! > Proposal 969/4: The Game is Afoot! I'll Take "Anal Bum Covers" for 7,000 > (Baron von Skippy) vote NO > Proposal 970/0: Eddie's in the Space-Time Continuum (Baron von Skippy) vote YES > Proposal 971/1: untitled champagne proposal (Squire of Dimness) vote NO > Proposal 972/0: Marching through Wall Street (Glotmorf) vote NO > Proposal 973/0: Public Exposure (Glotmorf) vote NO > Proposal 974/0: Bad Dog! (Orc In a Spacesuit) YES; that's the kind of rule I like. > Proposal 975/0: Towel Racks (bd) vote YES > Proposal 976/0: These Titles Ought To Last (Orc In a Spacesuit) vote NO > Proposal 978/0: Can't Touch This (Orc In a Spacesuit) vote NO > Proposal 979/0: This Wasn't In My Job Description... (Glotmorf) vote NO > Proposal 980/0: A bit of Exorc. (Wonko) vote NO > Proposal 981/0: A bit more Exorc. (Wonko) vote NO > Proposal 982/0: A little more (Wonko) vote NO > Proposal 983/0: And finally... (Wonko) vote YES > Proposal 984/0: Fixing the Stock Market (Wonko) vote YES > Proposal 985/0: Ambassador Biweekly (Athena) vote YES > Proposal 986/0: The World is An Atheist's Temple (Athena) vote YES > Proposal 987/0: Lord of the Stock Scam (Athena) vote YES > Proposal 989/0: Mutations BAD! Krunk smash! (bd) vote NO Athena <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> "All our belief systems, religions, and governments are the result of a series of mistakes that turned out to be better at making copies of themselves after all." -Richard Brodie http://www.memecentral.com/Level3.htm "We look at the world through windows on which have been drawn grids (concepts). Different philosophies use different grids. A culture is a group of people with rather similar grids. Through a window we view chaos, and relate it to the points on our grid, and thereby understand it. The ORDER is in the GRID." -The Principia Discordia <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Jeremy Cook The Goddess Athena mcfoufou@umich.edu From jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:10:17 +0100 Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:10:17 +0100 From: Jonathan David Amery jdamery@ysolde.ucam.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Daily Recognizer (Tuesday evening) > Per the passed Refresh Proposal of Wonko, the Clock is reset to nweek 22, > nday 8. I'm afraid I'm going to have to go On Leave - a surprise (to me) deadline appeared sometime last week and I'm too busy right now... :( WC. From glotmorf@earthlink.net Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:18:55 -0400 Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 14:18:55 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] NWEEK 22 BALLOT On 9/11/02 at 4:12 AM David E. Smith wrote: >The following measures are on the ballot for nweek 22: > >Proposal 943/0: Precipitation (The Voice) No. Still uncomfortable with the rain-o'-fire thang. >Proposal 951/1: Cleaning Up After Wonko's Cleanup (M-Tek) Yes. >Proposal 952/0: Nweek 22 Insta-Prop (House Grem) Yes. >Proposal 953/0: Cleaning Up (bd) Yes. >Proposal 954/0: Insider trading is illegal (bd) No. Tempting, but no. Tyranny of the Majority is a poor precedent to set. >Proposal 955/0: Nseasons, v.2 (The Voice) No. A do-nothing. Besides, "Grinps" is hard to pronounce. :) >Proposal 956/0: He Had Killer Charm. Well... Winning Charm (The Voice) Abstain. Giving up on the point win, are we? >Proposal 957/0: Less is More: The Ruleset (bd) No. A do-nothing; it reflects the status quo. >Proposal 958/3: Wealth Control (Athena) No. Prop 965 takes care of this. >Proposal 959/0: A Little More: Ministries (The Administrator) Yes. And how about "The Zurich Gnome"? >Proposal 960/0: What the Hell is an Agent? (Mithrandir) No. Iffy, given societies, since there are both player-initiated and= non-player-initiated society actions. >Proposal 961/0: Yesterday's News (Mithrandir) Yes. >Proposal 962/0: Solving one of the Quest's Problems (Mithrandir) Yes. >Proposal 963/0: Oh Yes, You'll Pay (Mithrandir) Abstain. I don't like poor-get-poorer rules, but if one is, for some= reason, spectacularly successful with shillings but not with points this= could be seen as a participation fee. >Proposal 964/0: There was Something Else... Oh Yeah, a Scapegoat! >(Mithrandir) Yes. >Proposal 965/0: Night of the Living Dead Stock Market (M-Tek) Yes. This fixes Wonko's scam. >Proposal 966/1: Graves, Make That my New Motto (Baron von Skippy) Yes. I love being quoted. :) >Proposal 967/1: Healthy Competition, My Ass (Baron von Skippy) Yes. But you'll hear from my lawyer regarding the lab. >Proposal 968/1: And now, the Dramatic Conclusion (Baron von Skippy) No. This has the potential of buying a win. >Proposal 969/4: The Game is Afoot! I'll Take "Anal Bum Covers" for 7,000 > (Baron von Skippy) No. This is a license to sin. >Proposal 970/0: Eddie's in the Space-Time Continuum (Baron von Skippy) Yes, but only because it's absurd. >Proposal 971/1: untitled champagne proposal (Squire of Dimness) Yes. Personally I think the rules already cover this, but if it'll shut= down those CFIs once and for all... >Proposal 972/0: Marching through Wall Street (Glotmorf) Yes. >Proposal 973/0: Public Exposure (Glotmorf) Yes. >Proposal 974/0: Bad Dog! (Orc In a Spacesuit) No. Status quo. I don't think even Nevada allows this. >Proposal 975/0: Towel Racks (bd) Yes. >Proposal 976/0: These Titles Ought To Last (Orc In a Spacesuit) Yes. >Proposal 978/0: Can't Touch This (Orc In a Spacesuit) No. This goes beyond the entertainment value aspect. >Proposal 979/0: This Wasn't In My Job Description... (Glotmorf) Yes. >Proposal 980/0: A bit of Exorc. (Wonko) No. I could see a win happening because of an event that happened (2= nweeks - 1 nday) prior to the win being claimed, and the win being claimed= on nday 10 of a nweek, so that unless something was done RIGHT THEN the= win couldn't be fought with a CFI. (I could even see me doing it.) >Proposal 981/0: A bit more Exorc. (Wonko) No. Force Absorbing is the only defense I'm aware of against other Force= effects, and Wonko is currently the highest-level Force wielder. >Proposal 982/0: A little more (Wonko) No. If we can allow rules to refer to objects that don't exist yet, we can= allow rules to refer to objects that don't exist at the moment. Or= players can profit from deleting the reference. >Proposal 983/0: And finally... (Wonko) No. I like tax-the-rich rules, even though I'm a leading customer of them.= It at least makes the leaders work a little harder for their wins. >Proposal 984/0: Fixing the Stock Market (Wonko) No. My stock market fixes make this obsolete. >Proposal 985/0: Ambassador Biweekly (Athena) No. "No news this week" would be worth 20 points. Need a better metric. >Proposal 986/0: The World is An Atheist's Temple (Athena) No. I take the Dante view. Make Eddie's temple in Limbo. >Proposal 987/0: Lord of the Stock Scam (Athena) Yes. If only because We Must Never Forget... >Proposal 989/0: Mutations BAD! Krunk smash! (bd) No. Try a judgment prop next time. Glotmorf From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:27:16 -0400 Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:27:16 -0400 From: Daniel Lepage dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Re: NWEEK 22 BALLOT Quoth David E. Smith, > Proposal 943/0: Precipitation (The Voice) Yes > Proposal 951/1: Cleaning Up After Wonko's Cleanup (M-Tek) Yes > Proposal 952/0: Nweek 22 Insta-Prop (House Grem) No > Proposal 953/0: Cleaning Up (bd) No > Proposal 954/0: Insider trading is illegal (bd) No > Proposal 955/0: Nseasons, v.2 (The Voice) No > Proposal 956/0: He Had Killer Charm. Well... Winning Charm (The Voice) Yes > Proposal 957/0: Less is More: The Ruleset (bd) No > Proposal 958/3: Wealth Control (Athena) Yes > Proposal 959/0: A Little More: Ministries (The Administrator) Yes > Proposal 960/0: What the Hell is an Agent? (Mithrandir) No > Proposal 961/0: Yesterday's News (Mithrandir) Yes > Proposal 962/0: Solving one of the Quest's Problems (Mithrandir) Yes > Proposal 963/0: Oh Yes, You'll Pay (Mithrandir) Yes > Proposal 964/0: There was Something Else... Oh Yeah, a Scapegoat! (Mithrandir) No > Proposal 965/0: Night of the Living Dead Stock Market (M-Tek) No > Proposal 966/1: Graves, Make That my New Motto (Baron von Skippy) No > Proposal 967/1: Healthy Competition, My Ass (Baron von Skippy) Yes > Proposal 968/1: And now, the Dramatic Conclusion (Baron von Skippy) Yes > Proposal 969/4: The Game is Afoot! I'll Take "Anal Bum Covers" for 7,000 No > Proposal 970/0: Eddie's in the Space-Time Continuum (Baron von Skippy) Yes > Proposal 971/1: untitled champagne proposal (Squire of Dimness) Yes > Proposal 972/0: Marching through Wall Street (Glotmorf) No > Proposal 973/0: Public Exposure (Glotmorf) No > Proposal 974/0: Bad Dog! (Orc In a Spacesuit) No > Proposal 975/0: Towel Racks (bd) Yes > Proposal 976/0: These Titles Ought To Last (Orc In a Spacesuit) No > Proposal 978/0: Can't Touch This (Orc In a Spacesuit) No > Proposal 979/0: This Wasn't In My Job Description... (Glotmorf) No > Proposal 980/0: A bit of Exorc. (Wonko) Yes > Proposal 981/0: A bit more Exorc. (Wonko) Yes > Proposal 982/0: A little more (Wonko) Yes > Proposal 983/0: And finally... (Wonko) Yes > Proposal 984/0: Fixing the Stock Market (Wonko) Yes > Proposal 985/0: Ambassador Biweekly (Athena) No > Proposal 986/0: The World is An Atheist's Temple (Athena) Yes > Proposal 987/0: Lord of the Stock Scam (Athena) Yes > Proposal 989/0: Mutations BAD! Krunk smash! (bd) No -- Wonko From squire_of_dimness@sbcglobal.net Wed, 11 Sep 2002 17:22:44 -0500 Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 17:22:44 -0500 From: Joshua Caudle squire_of_dimness@sbcglobal.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] NWEEK 22 BALLOT > The following measures are on the ballot for nweek 22: > Proposal 943/0: Precipitation (The Voice) YES > Proposal 951/1: Cleaning Up After Wonko's Cleanup (M-Tek) YES > Proposal 952/0: Nweek 22 Insta-Prop (House Grem) NO > Proposal 953/0: Cleaning Up (bd) NO > Proposal 954/0: Insider trading is illegal (bd) NO > Proposal 955/0: Nseasons, v.2 (The Voice) NO ("Grinps" IS hard to pronounce) > Proposal 956/0: He Had Killer Charm. Well... Winning Charm (The Voice) NO (charming people win enough already..) > Proposal 957/0: Less is More: The Ruleset (bd) YES (Why not??) > Proposal 958/3: Wealth Control (Athena) NO > Proposal 959/0: A Little More: Ministries (The Administrator) YES > Proposal 960/0: What the Hell is an Agent? (Mithrandir) YES > Proposal 961/0: Yesterday's News (Mithrandir) YES(even in the event of a reset people deserve respect) > Proposal 962/0: Solving one of the Quest's Problems (Mithrandir) YES > Proposal 963/0: Oh Yes, You'll Pay (Mithrandir) YES > Proposal 964/0: There was Something Else... Oh Yeah, a Scapegoat! (Mithrandir) YES > Proposal 965/0: Night of the Living Dead Stock Market (M-Tek) YES > Proposal 966/1: Graves, Make That my New Motto (Baron von Skippy) YES > Proposal 967/1: Healthy Competition, My Ass (Baron von Skippy) YES(I've always wanted to virutally snap someone with a wet towel...) > Proposal 968/1: And now, the Dramatic Conclusion (Baron von Skippy) YES(anything having to do with a Pan Galactic Garle bLaster must be good!) > Proposal 969/4: The Game is Afoot! I'll Take "Anal Bum Covers" for 7,000 > (Baron von Skippy) NO > Proposal 970/0: Eddie's in the Space-Time Continuum (Baron von Skippy) NO > Proposal 971/1: untitled champagne proposal (Squire of Dimness) YES(it IS my prop afterall) > Proposal 972/0: Marching through Wall Street (Glotmorf) YES > Proposal 973/0: Public Exposure (Glotmorf) YES > Proposal 974/0: Bad Dog! (Orc In a Spacesuit) NO > Proposal 975/0: Towel Racks (bd) YES > Proposal 976/0: These Titles Ought To Last (Orc In a Spacesuit) NO > Proposal 978/0: Can't Touch This (Orc In a Spacesuit) NO > Proposal 979/0: This Wasn't In My Job Description... (Glotmorf) YES > Proposal 980/0: A bit of Exorc. (Wonko) YES > Proposal 981/0: A bit more Exorc. (Wonko) NO > Proposal 982/0: A little more (Wonko) YES > Proposal 983/0: And finally... (Wonko) NO > Proposal 984/0: Fixing the Stock Market (Wonko) NO > Proposal 985/0: Ambassador Biweekly (Athena) YES > Proposal 986/0: The World is An Atheist's Temple (Athena) NO > Proposal 987/0: Lord of the Stock Scam (Athena) YES > Proposal 989/0: Mutations BAD! Krunk smash! (bd) YES -Squire ahh even my votes count... just gives me a warm and fuzzy feeeling inside... no wait that's just the mold growing again... From mhaywood383@hotmail.com Wed, 11 Sep 2002 20:35:33 -0400 Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 20:35:33 -0400 From: Mark Haywood mhaywood383@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] NWEEK 22 BALLOT >Proposal 943/0: Precipitation (The Voice) Yes >Proposal 951/1: Cleaning Up After Wonko's Cleanup (M-Tek) Yes >Proposal 952/0: Nweek 22 Insta-Prop (House Grem) No >Proposal 953/0: Cleaning Up (bd) No >Proposal 954/0: Insider trading is illegal (bd) No [[Even if I would reap benefits, I don't like it]] >Proposal 955/0: Nseasons, v.2 (The Voice) No >Proposal 956/0: He Had Killer Charm. Well... Winning Charm (The Voice) No >Proposal 957/0: Less is More: The Ruleset (bd) No >Proposal 958/3: Wealth Control (Athena) Yes >Proposal 959/0: A Little More: Ministries (The Administrator) Yes >Proposal 960/0: What the Hell is an Agent? (Mithrandir) Yes >Proposal 961/0: Yesterday's News (Mithrandir) Yes >Proposal 962/0: Solving one of the Quest's Problems (Mithrandir) Yes >Proposal 963/0: Oh Yes, You'll Pay (Mithrandir) Yes >Proposal 964/0: There was Something Else... Oh Yeah, a Scapegoat! >(Mithrandir) Yes >Proposal 965/0: Night of the Living Dead Stock Market (M-Tek) No >Proposal 966/1: Graves, Make That my New Motto (Baron von Skippy) Yes >Proposal 967/1: Healthy Competition, My Ass (Baron von Skippy) Yes, 13 >Proposal 968/1: And now, the Dramatic Conclusion (Baron von Skippy) Yes >Proposal 969/4: The Game is Afoot! I'll Take "Anal Bum Covers" for 7,000 >(Baron von Skippy) Yes >Proposal 970/0: Eddie's in the Space-Time Continuum (Baron von Skippy) Yes >Proposal 971/1: untitled champagne proposal (Squire of Dimness) Yes >Proposal 972/0: Marching through Wall Street (Glotmorf) Yes >Proposal 973/0: Public Exposure (Glotmorf) Yes >Proposal 974/0: Bad Dog! (Orc In a Spacesuit) No >Proposal 975/0: Towel Racks (bd) Yes >Proposal 976/0: These Titles Ought To Last (Orc In a Spacesuit) No >Proposal 978/0: Can't Touch This (Orc In a Spacesuit) No >Proposal 979/0: This Wasn't In My Job Description... (Glotmorf) Yes >Proposal 980/0: A bit of Exorc. (Wonko) Yes >Proposal 981/0: A bit more Exorc. (Wonko) Yes >Proposal 982/0: A little more (Wonko) Yes >Proposal 983/0: And finally... (Wonko) Yes >Proposal 984/0: Fixing the Stock Market (Wonko) Yes >Proposal 985/0: Ambassador Biweekly (Athena) No >Proposal 986/0: The World is An Atheist's Temple (Athena) No >Proposal 987/0: Lord of the Stock Scam (Athena) No >Proposal 989/0: Mutations BAD! Krunk smash! (bd) No ________________________________________________________________________ Mithrandir _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From nomicvoice0@hotmail.com Thu, 12 Sep 2002 16:52:31 -0400 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 16:52:31 -0400 From: The Voice nomicvoice0@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] (no subject) Proposal 943/0: Precipitation (The Voice) YES Proposal 951/1: Cleaning Up After Wonko's Cleanup (M-Tek)YES Proposal 952/0: Nweek 22 Insta-Prop (House Grem)NO Proposal 953/0: Cleaning Up (bd)YES Proposal 954/0: Insider trading is illegal (bd)NO Proposal 955/0: Nseasons, v.2 (The Voice)SHELVE Proposal 956/0: He Had Killer Charm. Well... Winning Charm (The Voice)YES Proposal 957/0: Less is More: The Ruleset (bd)NO NO NO Proposal 958/3: Wealth Control (Athena)NO [[pointless]] Proposal 959/0: A Little More: Ministries (The Administrator)YES Proposal 960/0: What the Hell is an Agent? (Mithrandir)YES Proposal 961/0: Yesterday's News (Mithrandir)YES Proposal 962/0: Solving one of the Quest's Problems (Mithrandir)ABSTAIN Proposal 963/0: Oh Yes, You'll Pay (Mithrandir)YES Proposal 964/0: There was Something Else... Oh Yeah, a Scapegoat! (Mithrandir)ABSTAIN Proposal 965/0: Night of the Living Dead Stock Market (M-Tek)NO Proposal 966/1: Graves, Make That my New Motto (Baron von Skippy)YES Proposal 967/1: Healthy Competition, My Ass (Baron von Skippy)YES Proposal 968/1: And now, the Dramatic Conclusion (Baron von Skippy)YES Proposal 969/4: The Game is Afoot! I'll Take "Anal Bum Covers" for 7,000 (Baron von Skippy)NO Proposal 970/0: Eddie's in the Space-Time Continuum (Baron von Skippy)YES Proposal 971/1: untitled champagne proposal (Squire of Dimness)NO Proposal 972/0: Marching through Wall Street (Glotmorf)ABSTAIN Proposal 973/0: Public Exposure (Glotmorf)ABSTAIN Proposal 974/0: Bad Dog! (Orc In a Spacesuit)YES Proposal 975/0: Towel Racks (bd)YES Proposal 976/0: These Titles Ought To Last (Orc In a Spacesuit)NO Proposal 978/0: Can't Touch This (Orc In a Spacesuit)NO Proposal 979/0: This Wasn't In My Job Description... (Glotmorf)YES Proposal 980/0: A bit of Exorc. (Wonko)YES Proposal 981/0: A bit more Exorc. (Wonko)YES Proposal 982/0: A little more (Wonko)YES Proposal 983/0: And finally... (Wonko)YES Proposal 984/0: Fixing the Stock Market (Wonko)ABSTAIN Proposal 985/0: Ambassador Biweekly (Athena)YES Proposal 986/0: The World is An Atheist's Temple (Athena)YES Proposal 987/0: Lord of the Stock Scam (Athena)YES Proposal 989/0: Mutations BAD! Krunk smash! (bd)NO -0-THE VOICE-0- _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:26:28 -0400 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:26:28 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Request for a Writ of Delay Mr. Admin, we need to delay the voting process until I can see what I'm v= oting=20 on. Or give me a place to see the proposals. --=20 bd Life is a sexually transmitted disease with 100% mortality. From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:39:58 -0400 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:39:58 -0400 From: Daniel Lepage dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Request for a Writ of Delay Quoth bd, > Mr. Admin, we need to delay the voting process until I can see what I'm voting > on. Or give me a place to see the proposals. It's all posted at www.technopagan.org/nomic, and has been since Dave announced it was almost two weeks ago. It looked like this: Quoth David E. Smith, on 8/29/02, at 3:12 AM, > This is, maybe, everything that went down before the present State of > Emergency. The new B Nomic site, at http://www.technopagan.org/nomic/ , > should reflect most if not all of these things. > > This does NOT reflect the Entropy-borne apocalypse which came before the > present Emergency. I'll get to that later. :-) > > The Refresh Proposals I've seen are on the aforementioned Web site. > > If I missed something (which is very probable indeed) yell. > > I recognized a few things normally assigned to Ministers, just so I can be > sure the Web site is a little less broken. > > Any ministers who have their stuff hosted via the main site (the Grid and > Gnome ministers, at least) are asked to contact me privately, as there are > new URLs and new passwords for their Ministries. > > > ...dave > > > ---- David E. Smith http://www.technopagan.org/ > http://metadave.net/ http://www.bureau42.com/ > http://whatIsay.com/ http://www.nomic.net/~g6/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > BNomic-Private mailing list > BNomic-Private@ysolde.ucam.org > http://www.ysolde.ucam.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/bnomic-private -- Wonko From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:48:01 -0400 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:48:01 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Request for a Writ of Delay On Thursday 12 September 2002 06:39 pm, Daniel Lepage wrote: > Quoth bd, > > > Mr. Admin, we need to delay the voting process until I can see what I= 'm > > voting on. Or give me a place to see the proposals. > > It's all posted at www.technopagan.org/nomic, and has been since Dave > announced it was almost two weeks ago. Oh, I feel stupid now. --=20 bd Love is an ideal thing, marriage a real thing; a confusion of the real with the ideal never goes unpunished. =09=09-- Goethe From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:54:03 -0400 Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:54:03 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] NWEEK 22 BALLOT On Wednesday 11 September 2002 12:12 am, David E. Smith wrote: > The following measures are on the ballot for nweek 22: > > Proposal 943/0: Precipitation (The Voice) YES > Proposal 951/1: Cleaning Up After Wonko's Cleanup (M-Tek) YES > Proposal 952/0: Nweek 22 Insta-Prop (House Grem) SHELVE [[ :) ]] > Proposal 953/0: Cleaning Up (bd) YES > Proposal 954/0: Insider trading is illegal (bd) YES > Proposal 955/0: Nseasons, v.2 (The Voice) SHELVE > Proposal 956/0: He Had Killer Charm. Well... Winning Charm (The Voice) YES > Proposal 957/0: Less is More: The Ruleset (bd) ABSTAIN > Proposal 958/3: Wealth Control (Athena) YES > Proposal 959/0: A Little More: Ministries (The Administrator) YES > Proposal 960/0: What the Hell is an Agent? (Mithrandir) YES > Proposal 961/0: Yesterday's News (Mithrandir) YES > Proposal 962/0: Solving one of the Quest's Problems (Mithrandir) YES > Proposal 963/0: Oh Yes, You'll Pay (Mithrandir) YES > Proposal 964/0: There was Something Else... Oh Yeah, a Scapegoat! YES > (Mithrandir) Proposal 965/0: Night of the Living Dead Stock Market (M-T= ek) YES > Proposal 966/1: Graves, Make That my New Motto (Baron von Skippy) ABSTAIN [[ The best way... ]] > Proposal 967/1: Healthy Competition, My Ass (Baron von Skippy) YES > Proposal 968/1: And now, the Dramatic Conclusion (Baron von Skippy) YES > Proposal 969/4: The Game is Afoot! I'll Take "Anal Bum Covers" for 7,00= 0 > =09=09(Baron von Skippy) YES > Proposal 970/0: Eddie's in the Space-Time Continuum (Baron von Skippy) YES > Proposal 971/1: untitled champagne proposal (Squire of Dimness) YES > Proposal 972/0: Marching through Wall Street (Glotmorf) YES > Proposal 973/0: Public Exposure (Glotmorf) YES > Proposal 974/0: Bad Dog! (Orc In a Spacesuit) YES > Proposal 975/0: Towel Racks (bd) YES > Proposal 976/0: These Titles Ought To Last (Orc In a Spacesuit) YES > Proposal 978/0: Can't Touch This (Orc In a Spacesuit) YES > Proposal 979/0: This Wasn't In My Job Description... (Glotmorf) YES > Proposal 980/0: A bit of Exorc. (Wonko) YES > Proposal 981/0: A bit more Exorc. (Wonko) YES > Proposal 982/0: A little more (Wonko) YES > Proposal 983/0: And finally... (Wonko) YES, YES, YES!!! > Proposal 984/0: Fixing the Stock Market (Wonko) YES [[ Let's see all those proposals editing the same rule[s]... ]] > Proposal 985/0: Ambassador Biweekly (Athena) YES > Proposal 986/0: The World is An Atheist's Temple (Athena) YES > Proposal 987/0: Lord of the Stock Scam (Athena) YES > Proposal 989/0: Mutations BAD! Krunk smash! (bd) YES --=20 bd It's reassuring to know that if you behave strangely enough, society will take full responsibility for you. From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Fri, 13 Sep 2002 18:49:44 -0400 Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 18:49:44 -0400 From: Daniel Lepage dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Saving a fortune... I give 40 BNS to bd. I give 150 BNS to Mithrandir. I give 150 BNS to the Baron. I give 150 BNS to the Glotmorf. I give 450 BNS to Orc. [[That's for all the Wealthy Bastard Contests. They all happened this nweek, but that was still long, long ago. But I hadn't forgotten.]] I buy 50 shares of every stock I can. I convert 1100 BNS into 100 Points. [[It's nowhere near the 5mill I've got now, but it gives me something to work with :)]] -- Wonko From dave@technopagan.org Sat, 14 Sep 2002 00:35:57 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 00:35:57 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Clock is Off Once again, ladies and gentlemen, the Clock is Off. Is it off because of the Entropy explosion, or merely because I haven't posted voting results yet? That, my friends, is a question best left to the philosophers. (I'm assuming that it's the Entropy thing. I can process votes and such during its three-day shutdown, post the results as soon as that's outta the way, and minimize the delay. Thus we can eventually return to our usual fun.) Recognized stuff: Squire has ruled (FALSE) on CFI 977. Eir followup CFI is 990, assigned to Wonko. Enjoy. ...dave -- David E. Smith http://www.technopagan.org/ http://metadave.net/ "You know I don't approve of violence ... but these ARE deadly robots!" From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:23:27 -0400 Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:23:27 -0400 From: Daniel Lepage dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Re: [BNomic-Public] Contest Quoth Jeremy "Athena" Cook, > I believe I won the History Contest by naming Jesus/Jebus, Wonko, but I > did not receive any prize. Do I get one? > Oops, sorry. Good thing I invested all that, otherwise this would be a fifth of my currency :) I give Athena 100 BNS. -- Wonko From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:33:36 -0400 Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:33:36 -0400 From: Daniel Lepage dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Justice is Administered CFI 990: Statement: Any player according to the rulset as of nweek 22 nday 5 may drinka glass of Champagne by simply announcing that the action in taking place in a public forum. if no particular glass is stated in said proclamation, the admistrator must choose an otherwise unclaimed glasss of Champagne for the player to drink. If no such glasses exist the administrator must create said glass. Analysis by Plaintiff: Rule 503 in nweek 22 does not state that a glass must be in a player's possesion inorder for the player to drink said glass. However since Rule 636 has greater Chutzpah athan Rule 503 the glass cannot be in the possession of another player. Therefore it si the duty of the adminisytrator to selecta legal glass for consumption as stated in Rule 25. If no appropiate glasses are currently available, Rule 25 would also plae the onus of creating said glass on the administrator. Analysis by Judge Wonko: Rule 503, during nweek 22 and at the present, stated that "A player may drink a glass of champagne by announcing that e is doing so in a public forum." This does not, as has been previously ruled (see CFI 668), indicate that a player may perform the action "to drink a glass of champagne" at any time; rather, it enables players to perform the action "to drink", with the target being a glass of Champagne. This does not imply that Champagne may be created by performing the action; it implies that the action may not be performed unless there already exists a legal glass of Champagne to be targeted. Therefore, I judge this CFI to be FALSE. I have spoken. -- Wonko From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:39:18 -0400 Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:39:18 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] A cursory look into the wide world of Gnomes All Gnomes owned by all players are now in bags. Player Gnome types Athena Baron von Skippy Bomb, Ice, Weather, Fire, Scottish[1 hp], Wine[1 hp], Vodka[1 hp], Grape Kool-Aid[1 hp], Champagne[1 hp], Beer[1 hp] bd Air, Bomb (4), Basic (4), Alien (4), Earth, Fire, Grain (2), Herb (3), Sheep (3), Summer (2), Water (4), Winter Dan Glotmorf Iain Mithrandir Naath Orc Air (2), Alien, Basic, Earth, Grain, Sheep (2) Rob Squire The Voice Basic (2), Lemon Wild Card Earth (2), Fire, Sheep, Tea, Water (2), Winter Wonko [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:40:38 -0400 Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:40:38 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Bandwidth {{ __Fixing the Bandwidth__ [[ I was looking through the ruleset, searching for an open hole, When I stumbled 'cross a rule that was intriguing to behold... This rule was numbered two-one-two, it tried to regulate The number of proposals which each player could create. But alas, for our dear admin, this rule's purpose was defeated, By another of the rules, which had poor two-twelve superceded! This rule, which we call rule nineteen, doomed two-twelve to disposal, By stating that all Players have the right to make proposals! So rule two-twelve was contradicted, and was overruled, By rule ninteen! (which was enforced by rule three-three slash two!) And so while we have tried proposals many to prohibit, It turns out the sad truth is that there is no Bandwidth Limit! This hole I had discover'd, I found to be quite scary - To think that our poor admin in proposals might be buried! And so I now have written a proposal most preventive, I hope when voting comes around you all will be assentive! This is how it goes: ]] Amend rule 212 to be: {{ __Bandwidth__ Each player has an attribute called Bandwidth. No player's Bandwidth may never exceed 10. At the beginning of each nweek, each player's bandwidth becomes 5. When a player makes a proposasl, eir bandwidth decreases by one. When a player makes a 1/2 proposasl, eir bandwidth decreases by 1/2 instead. If a player attempts to make a proposal, but the making of such a proposal would decrease eir bandwdith to less than zero, the proposal is not made. This rule supercedes rule 19. }} Amend rule 256, Section B.3, by replacing the text "The player who holds the Token of Proposals may make one more proposal than is allowed under the current ruleset. Immediately after eir extra proposal is recognized by the Administrator, the Token of Proposals is automatically returned to the Bandwidth Gremlin." with "The bandwidth of a player holding the Token of Proposals is treated as if it were one greater than it would be if e did not have the Token of Proposals. At the end of each nweek, the Token of Proposals is transferred to the Bandwidth Gremlin's possession." Amend section B.10 of the same rule by replacing the text "When a player is Burnt, e may make one fewer proposal then e would normally be able to." with "The bandwidth of a Burnt player is treated as if it were one less than it would be if e were not Burnt." }} -- Wonko From glotmorf@earthlink.net Sat, 14 Sep 2002 00:09:31 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 00:09:31 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Bandwidth On 9/13/02 at 11:40 PM Wonko wrote: >{{ >__Fixing the Bandwidth__ > >[[ >I was looking through the ruleset, searching for an open hole, >When I stumbled 'cross a rule that was intriguing to behold... >This rule was numbered two-one-two, it tried to regulate >The number of proposals which each player could create. > >But alas, for our dear admin, this rule's purpose was defeated, >By another of the rules, which had poor two-twelve superceded! >This rule, which we call rule nineteen, doomed two-twelve to disposal, >By stating that all Players have the right to make proposals! > >So rule two-twelve was contradicted, and was overruled, >By rule ninteen! (which was enforced by rule three-three slash two!) >And so while we have tried proposals many to prohibit, >It turns out the sad truth is that there is no Bandwidth Limit! > >This hole I had discover'd, I found to be quite scary - >To think that our poor admin in proposals might be buried! >And so I now have written a proposal most preventive, >I hope when voting comes around you all will be assentive! Tsk. There is no hole. Rule 19 may well say all players can make= proposals, but it doesn't say they can make an infinite number. Rule 212= doesn't conflict with this; it only modulates it. What would conflict= with this is a rule that says under certain circumstances a player can't= make proposals. No such thing exists. > >This is how it goes: >]] >Amend rule 212 to be: >{{ >__Bandwidth__ > >Each player has an attribute called Bandwidth. No player's Bandwidth may >never exceed 10. So...every player's bandwidth must exceed 10 at some time or other? >At the beginning of each nweek, each player's bandwidth becomes 5. >When a player makes a proposasl, eir bandwidth decreases by one. >When a player makes a 1/2 proposasl, eir bandwidth decreases by 1/2 >instead. Then something should be done about Rule 704, Judgment Props. Judgment= props are defined in that rule as being proposals. The rule says they= don't count against bandwidth, but this new version of Rule 212 would take= priority over that. Also, why specifically have whole and half proposals? Club props can take= any fraction out of the club's members' bandwidth. >If a player attempts to make a proposal, but the making of such a proposal >would decrease eir bandwdith to less than zero, the proposal is not made. So...proposals that create rules that have the possibility of reducing some= player's bandwidth to less than zero automatically don't get made? > >This rule supercedes rule 19. >}} >Amend rule 256, Section B.3, by replacing the text > >"The player who holds the Token of Proposals may make one more proposal >than >is allowed under the current ruleset. Immediately after eir extra proposal >is recognized by the Administrator, the Token of Proposals is= automatically >returned to the Bandwidth Gremlin." > >with > >"The bandwidth of a player holding the Token of Proposals is treated as if >it were one greater than it would be if e did not have the Token of >Proposals. At the end of each nweek, the Token of Proposals is transferred >to the Bandwidth Gremlin's possession." I'm uncomfortable with "what it would be" rules. Judging by the votes on= my rollback proposal, so is everyone else. > >Amend section B.10 of the same rule by replacing the text > >"When a player is Burnt, e may make one fewer proposal then e would >normally >be able to." > >with > >"The bandwidth of a Burnt player is treated as if it were one less than it >would be if e were not Burnt." > >}} I honestly don't think Rules 19 and 212 conflict. I'd be perfectly happy= to submit a judgment prop to that effect... Glotmorf From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Sat, 14 Sep 2002 00:20:31 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 00:20:31 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Bandwidth Quoth Glotmorf, > On 9/13/02 at 11:40 PM Wonko wrote: > >> {{ >> __Fixing the Bandwidth__ >> >> [[ >> I was looking through the ruleset, searching for an open hole, >> When I stumbled 'cross a rule that was intriguing to behold... >> This rule was numbered two-one-two, it tried to regulate >> The number of proposals which each player could create. >> >> But alas, for our dear admin, this rule's purpose was defeated, >> By another of the rules, which had poor two-twelve superceded! >> This rule, which we call rule nineteen, doomed two-twelve to disposal, >> By stating that all Players have the right to make proposals! >> >> So rule two-twelve was contradicted, and was overruled, >> By rule ninteen! (which was enforced by rule three-three slash two!) >> And so while we have tried proposals many to prohibit, >> It turns out the sad truth is that there is no Bandwidth Limit! >> >> This hole I had discover'd, I found to be quite scary - >> To think that our poor admin in proposals might be buried! >> And so I now have written a proposal most preventive, >> I hope when voting comes around you all will be assentive! > > Tsk. There is no hole. Rule 19 may well say all players can make proposals, > but it doesn't say they can make an infinite number. Rule 212 doesn't > conflict with this; it only modulates it. What would conflict with this is a > rule that says under certain circumstances a player can't make proposals. No > such thing exists. Imagine this: I make five proposals (hard to imagine, isn't it? :) Now, according to rule 212, I can't make any more. According to rule 19, I may submit proposals. That is a conflict. >> >> This is how it goes: >> ]] >> Amend rule 212 to be: >> {{ >> __Bandwidth__ >> >> Each player has an attribute called Bandwidth. No player's Bandwidth may >> never exceed 10. > > So...every player's bandwidth must exceed 10 at some time or other? Um... I change that to 'ever'. >> At the beginning of each nweek, each player's bandwidth becomes 5. >> When a player makes a proposasl, eir bandwidth decreases by one. >> When a player makes a 1/2 proposasl, eir bandwidth decreases by 1/2 >> instead. > > Then something should be done about Rule 704, Judgment Props. Judgment props > are defined in that rule as being proposals. The rule says they don't count > against bandwidth, but this new version of Rule 212 would take priority over > that. On the other hand, under the current ruleset, 'Bandwidth' isn't defined. Judgment Props do count towards the 5-prop limit, though. That's one of the problems I'm attempting to address here. > Also, why specifically have whole and half proposals? Club props can take any > fraction out of the club's members' bandwidth. Half proposals were somebody else's idea. They're already in the ruleset. If you don't like 'em, propose to remove 'em yourself. >> If a player attempts to make a proposal, but the making of such a proposal >> would decrease eir bandwdith to less than zero, the proposal is not made. > > So...proposals that create rules that have the possibility of reducing some > player's bandwidth to less than zero automatically don't get made? The making of the proposal wouldn't be doing the massive reducing, the passage/failure of the proposal would be. The making of the proposal only drops bandwidth by a point. >> >> This rule supercedes rule 19. >> }} >> Amend rule 256, Section B.3, by replacing the text >> >> "The player who holds the Token of Proposals may make one more proposal >> than >> is allowed under the current ruleset. Immediately after eir extra proposal >> is recognized by the Administrator, the Token of Proposals is automatically >> returned to the Bandwidth Gremlin." >> >> with >> >> "The bandwidth of a player holding the Token of Proposals is treated as if >> it were one greater than it would be if e did not have the Token of >> Proposals. At the end of each nweek, the Token of Proposals is transferred >> to the Bandwidth Gremlin's possession." > > I'm uncomfortable with "what it would be" rules. Judging by the votes on my > rollback proposal, so is everyone else. This isn't a 'what it would be' refferring to the past. That's the thing people don't like. This is a 'what it would be' refferring to a present condition. It's easy to calculate - ignore the effects of the Token to find out what eir bandwidth 'would be', then add one to find out what it IS. It's the same way Radar Towers work. >> >> Amend section B.10 of the same rule by replacing the text >> >> "When a player is Burnt, e may make one fewer proposal then e would >> normally >> be able to." >> >> with >> >> "The bandwidth of a Burnt player is treated as if it were one less than it >> would be if e were not Burnt." >> >> }} > > I honestly don't think Rules 19 and 212 conflict. I'd be perfectly happy to > submit a judgment prop to that effect... Even if they aren't in conflict, this proposal is still a good idea because it defines "bandwidth". I could make a case for why M-Tek doesn't work at all, based on the way it refers to some strange object called 'Bandwidth' which, under the current ruleset, does not exist. But they are clearly in conflict - once I've submitted 5 proposals, one says I may submit more, the other says I can't. If that's not conflict I don't know what is. Incidentally, if they aren't in conflict, then we have a SOE - r212 says that it doesn't apply during nweek 23, but the sentence that says that, according to itself, doesn't apply right now. It's the classic "This statement is False" paradox, and the only way we can know whether or not there's a bandwidth limit is if another rule supercedes poor broken r212 and sets the limit. Fortunately, r19 does this for us. -- Wonko From glotmorf@earthlink.net Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:28:24 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:28:24 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Bandwidth On 9/14/02 at 12:20 AM Wonko wrote: >Quoth Glotmorf, > >> On 9/13/02 at 11:40 PM Wonko wrote: >> >>> {{ >>> __Fixing the Bandwidth__ >>> >>> [[ >>> I was looking through the ruleset, searching for an open hole, >>> When I stumbled 'cross a rule that was intriguing to behold... >>> This rule was numbered two-one-two, it tried to regulate >>> The number of proposals which each player could create. >>> >>> But alas, for our dear admin, this rule's purpose was defeated, >>> By another of the rules, which had poor two-twelve superceded! >>> This rule, which we call rule nineteen, doomed two-twelve to disposal, >>> By stating that all Players have the right to make proposals! >>> >>> So rule two-twelve was contradicted, and was overruled, >>> By rule ninteen! (which was enforced by rule three-three slash two!) >>> And so while we have tried proposals many to prohibit, >>> It turns out the sad truth is that there is no Bandwidth Limit! >>> >>> This hole I had discover'd, I found to be quite scary - >>> To think that our poor admin in proposals might be buried! >>> And so I now have written a proposal most preventive, >>> I hope when voting comes around you all will be assentive! >> >> Tsk. There is no hole. Rule 19 may well say all players can make >proposals, >> but it doesn't say they can make an infinite number. Rule 212 doesn't >> conflict with this; it only modulates it. What would conflict with this >is a >> rule that says under certain circumstances a player can't make >proposals. No >> such thing exists. > >Imagine this: I make five proposals (hard to imagine, isn't it? :) Now, >according to rule 212, I can't make any more. According to rule 19, I may >submit proposals. That is a conflict. No, because Rule 19 is a general case: it supplies permission. As for the= actual method of doing so, that's where Rule 212 comes in. The rules that= talk about bandwidth, the rules that talk about public fora, the rules= that talk about Admin recognition of submitted proposals, all together= dictate the method and window of opportunity for submitting proposals.= Any player can submit proposals. E just has to do it the right way. No= conflict. >>> This is how it goes: >>> ]] >>> Amend rule 212 to be: >>> {{ >>> __Bandwidth__ >>> >>> Each player has an attribute called Bandwidth. No player's Bandwidth= may >>> never exceed 10. >> >> So...every player's bandwidth must exceed 10 at some time or other? > >Um... I change that to 'ever'. > >>> At the beginning of each nweek, each player's bandwidth becomes 5. >>> When a player makes a proposasl, eir bandwidth decreases by one. >>> When a player makes a 1/2 proposasl, eir bandwidth decreases by 1/2 >>> instead. >> >> Then something should be done about Rule 704, Judgment Props. Judgment >props >> are defined in that rule as being proposals. The rule says they don't >count >> against bandwidth, but this new version of Rule 212 would take priority >over >> that. > >On the other hand, under the current ruleset, 'Bandwidth' isn't defined. >Judgment Props do count towards the 5-prop limit, though. That's one of= the >problems I'm attempting to address here. > >> Also, why specifically have whole and half proposals? Club props can >take any >> fraction out of the club's members' bandwidth. > >Half proposals were somebody else's idea. They're already in the ruleset. >If >you don't like 'em, propose to remove 'em yourself. > >>> If a player attempts to make a proposal, but the making of such a >proposal >>> would decrease eir bandwdith to less than zero, the proposal is not >made. >> >> So...proposals that create rules that have the possibility of reducing >some >> player's bandwidth to less than zero automatically don't get made? > >The making of the proposal wouldn't be doing the massive reducing, the >passage/failure of the proposal would be. The making of the proposal only >drops bandwidth by a point. > >>> >>> This rule supercedes rule 19. >>> }} >>> Amend rule 256, Section B.3, by replacing the text >>> >>> "The player who holds the Token of Proposals may make one more proposal >>> than >>> is allowed under the current ruleset. Immediately after eir extra >proposal >>> is recognized by the Administrator, the Token of Proposals is >automatically >>> returned to the Bandwidth Gremlin." >>> >>> with >>> >>> "The bandwidth of a player holding the Token of Proposals is treated as >if >>> it were one greater than it would be if e did not have the Token of >>> Proposals. At the end of each nweek, the Token of Proposals is >transferred >>> to the Bandwidth Gremlin's possession." >> >> I'm uncomfortable with "what it would be" rules. Judging by the votes >on my >> rollback proposal, so is everyone else. > >This isn't a 'what it would be' refferring to the past. That's the thing >people don't like. This is a 'what it would be' refferring to a present >condition. It's easy to calculate - ignore the effects of the Token to= find >out what eir bandwidth 'would be', then add one to find out what it IS. >It's >the same way Radar Towers work. Uh-huh. And suppose a later rule does something to modify bandwidth, but= is in conflict with the Token of Proposals rule, so the Token takes= priority...except that what the player's bandwidth "would be" without the= Token is what it "would be" with the other rule in effect. This is a time= bomb. >>> Amend section B.10 of the same rule by replacing the text >>> >>> "When a player is Burnt, e may make one fewer proposal then e would >>> normally >>> be able to." >>> >>> with >>> >>> "The bandwidth of a Burnt player is treated as if it were one less than >it >>> would be if e were not Burnt." >>> >>> }} >> >> I honestly don't think Rules 19 and 212 conflict. I'd be perfectly >happy to >> submit a judgment prop to that effect... > >Even if they aren't in conflict, this proposal is still a good idea= because >it defines "bandwidth". I could make a case for why M-Tek doesn't work at >all, based on the way it refers to some strange object called 'Bandwidth' >which, under the current ruleset, does not exist. > >But they are clearly in conflict - once I've submitted 5 proposals, one >says >I may submit more, the other says I can't. If that's not conflict I don't >know what is. > >Incidentally, if they aren't in conflict, then we have a SOE - r212 says >that it doesn't apply during nweek 23, but the sentence that says that, >according to itself, doesn't apply right now. It's the classic "This >statement is False" paradox, and the only way we can know whether or not >there's a bandwidth limit is if another rule supercedes poor broken r212 >and >sets the limit. > >Fortunately, r19 does this for us. Also fortunately, we're almost at the end of nweek 23, so the end-of-r212= problem will go away. Did anyone actually exceed their erstwhile= bandwidth this nweek? Glotmorf From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:52:19 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:52:19 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Bandwidth On Saturday 14 September 2002 12:09 am, Glotmorf wrote: > Tsk. There is no hole. Rule 19 may well say all players can make > proposals, but it doesn't say they can make an infinite number. Rule 2= 12 > doesn't conflict with this; it only modulates it. What would conflict = with > this is a rule that says under certain circumstances a player can't mak= e > proposals. No such thing exists. [[ What about the on/off leave thingy? ]] --=20 bd Humor in the Court: Q: (Showing man picture.) That's you? A: Yes, sir. Q: And you were present when the picture was taken, right? From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:53:02 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:53:02 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Bandwidth On Saturday 14 September 2002 01:28 pm, Glotmorf wrote: > Also fortunately, we're almost at the end of nweek 23, so the end-of-r2= 12 > problem will go away. Did anyone actually exceed their erstwhile bandw= idth > this nweek? I did. --=20 bd Windows NT -- it'll drive you buggy!=20 -- Gareth Barnard From glotmorf@earthlink.net Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:03:26 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:03:26 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] CFI -- Prop 958 [[ I hate to do this, but this is how the rules are built right now. I= hate to say I told you so...hey, who am I kidding? ]] I make the following CFI: Statement: Voting in favor of Proposal 958 is in violation of Rules 897 and 636;= therefore, affirmative votes for Proposal 958 cannot be counted. Analysis: Shillings are objects. Wonko's shillings are in Wonko's possession. Rule= 897 says "B Nomic Shillings may only be manipulated as specified in the= rules." Rule 636 says "no player may modify the state of any object in= possession of another player, without the other player's explicit= permission in a public forum." Wonko did not give permission in a public= forum for eir shillings to be modified. Therefore, it is illegal for any= player to vote in favor of a proposal that modifies Wonko's shillings,= e.g. by transferring them to the Bank. Glotmorf From glotmorf@earthlink.net Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:11:04 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:11:04 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Bandwidth On 9/14/02 at 1:52 PM bd wrote: >On Saturday 14 September 2002 12:09 am, Glotmorf wrote: > >> Tsk. There is no hole. Rule 19 may well say all players can make >> proposals, but it doesn't say they can make an infinite number. Rule= 212 >> doesn't conflict with this; it only modulates it. What would conflict >with >> this is a rule that says under certain circumstances a player can't make >> proposals. No such thing exists. > >[[ What about the on/off leave thingy? ]] Same thing as the bandwidth thingy, especially since leave is either= voluntary or voluntarily fixable. Rule 19 says you can make proposals.= As long as you're doing it in the way the rules permit (which involves,= among other things, not being on leave and not doing more than five per= nweek) there's no problem. Hence, there's no conflict. Glotmorf From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Sat, 14 Sep 2002 22:36:01 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 22:36:01 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] CFI -- Prop 958 [[I hate to do this, but hey, that's what the rules say. *sigh* There goes 4.8 mill. :-( ]] Quoth Glotmorf, > I make the following CFI: > > Statement: > > Voting in favor of Proposal 958 is in violation of Rules 897 and 636; > therefore, affirmative votes for Proposal 958 cannot be counted. > > Analysis: > > Shillings are objects. Wonko's shillings are in Wonko's possession. Rule 897 > says "B Nomic Shillings may only be manipulated as specified in the rules." > Rule 636 says "no player may modify the state of any object in possession of > another player, without the other player's explicit permission in a public > forum." Wonko did not give permission in a public forum for eir shillings to > be modified. Therefore, it is illegal for any player to vote in favor of a > proposal that modifies Wonko's shillings, e.g. by transferring them to the > Bank. Rule 15 states that "When a proposal passes, the following effects occur in order: * * The effects specified in the proposal occur in the order listed in the proposal. " It supercedes rule 897, therefore proposing to manipulate shillings is legal. As for rule 636, the act of voting does not modify the shillings, it modifies the player's vote (andz possibly also the proposal - that's subject to interpretation). The actual modification of my shillings is performed by rule 15 when it implements the proposal, and thus rule 636 doesn't get in the way. -- Wonko From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Sat, 14 Sep 2002 22:42:35 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 22:42:35 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Bandwidth Quoth Glotmorf, >> Imagine this: I make five proposals (hard to imagine, isn't it? :) Now, >> according to rule 212, I can't make any more. According to rule 19, I may >> submit proposals. That is a conflict. > > No, because Rule 19 is a general case: it supplies permission. As for the > actual method of doing so, that's where Rule 212 comes in. The rules that > talk about bandwidth, the rules that talk about public fora, the rules that > talk about Admin recognition of submitted proposals, all together dictate the > method and window of opportunity for submitting proposals. Any player can > submit proposals. E just has to do it the right way. No conflict. I still disagree. CFI pending. >> This isn't a 'what it would be' refferring to the past. That's the thing >> people don't like. This is a 'what it would be' refferring to a present >> condition. It's easy to calculate - ignore the effects of the Token to find >> out what eir bandwidth 'would be', then add one to find out what it IS. >> It's >> the same way Radar Towers work. > > Uh-huh. And suppose a later rule does something to modify bandwidth, but is > in conflict with the Token of Proposals rule, so the Token takes > priority...except that what the player's bandwidth "would be" without the > Token is what it "would be" with the other rule in effect. This is a time > bomb. Very well, I amend the part of my proposal which reads, "The player who holds the Token of Proposals may make one more proposal than is allowed under the current ruleset. Immediately after eir extra proposal is recognized by the Administrator, the Token of Proposals is automatically returned to the Bandwidth Gremlin." to read, "When a player recieves the Token of Proposals, eir bandwidth increases by 1. When a player loses possession of the Token of Proposals, eir bandwidth decreases by one, unless eir bandwidth would then be less than zero, in which case it becomes zero. If a player who possesses the Token of proposals ever has a Bandwidth of zero, the Token of Proposals is automatically returned to the Bandwidth Gremlin." >> >> Even if they aren't in conflict, this proposal is still a good idea because >> it defines "bandwidth". I could make a case for why M-Tek doesn't work at >> all, based on the way it refers to some strange object called 'Bandwidth' >> which, under the current ruleset, does not exist. >> >> But they are clearly in conflict - once I've submitted 5 proposals, one >> says >> I may submit more, the other says I can't. If that's not conflict I don't >> know what is. >> >> Incidentally, if they aren't in conflict, then we have a SOE - r212 says >> that it doesn't apply during nweek 23, but the sentence that says that, >> according to itself, doesn't apply right now. It's the classic "This >> statement is False" paradox, and the only way we can know whether or not >> there's a bandwidth limit is if another rule supercedes poor broken r212 >> and >> sets the limit. >> >> Fortunately, r19 does this for us. > > Also fortunately, we're almost at the end of nweek 23, so the end-of-r212 > problem will go away. Did anyone actually exceed their erstwhile bandwidth > this nweek? Last nweek was nweek 22. Nweek 23 just began, with the stoppage of the clock for vote counting. -- Wonko From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Sat, 14 Sep 2002 22:43:15 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 22:43:15 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: The Druid Gremlin {{ __Funny, he doesn't look Druish...__ Create: {{ __The Druid Gremlin__ {*(Grid, Gremlin),1*} There exists a Gremlin called the Druid Gremlin, or Obelix. At the beginning of each nweek, if Obelix is Active, it moves one space in the direction which would bring it closest to the nearest big rock, if one exists, randomly selecting one if multiple rocks are tied. If this is not possible because the nearest Big Rock is consecutive to Obelix, Obelix instead tries to Carve that Big Rock. 1d4 is then rolled, and the Big Rock and anything on it is destroyed, and an Ancient Monolith is created at the Rock's location. If the roll was a 1, Obelix Screws Up, causing the Monolith to absorb 10 points of Entropy, and causing the square the Monolith occupies to become of substance Fire. [[ Thus, the Monolith then blows up ]] }} }} *sigh*. I couldn't come up with a story to go with this. Oh well. -- Wonko From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Sat, 14 Sep 2002 22:49:53 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 22:49:53 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] CFI -- r19 vs r212 I submit the following CFI: Statement: Under the ruleset as of nweek 22, the limit defined in rule 212 on the number of proposals players could make per nweek did not limit players. Defendant: Glotmorf Analysis by Plaintiff: Rule 212 states that "Each player is limited to a maximum of 5 proposals per nweek." However, rule 19 states that players may make proposals. Thus, once a player had made 5 proposals, the two rules were in conflict, 212 forbidding em to make another proposal, 19 permitting em to. As rule 19 supercedes rule 212 (by rule 33), a player in that situation would be permitted to make a proposal. Thus, the bandwidth limit set by rule 212 has no effect. -- Wonko From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Sat, 14 Sep 2002 22:51:30 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 22:51:30 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Service Malls {{ __Service Malls__ Remove the sentences " Every square of the Grid which has x and y coordinates that are both integral multiples of 6 is said to contain an Elbonian Airways." [[section D]] and "At the end of each nday, any square containing an Elbonian Airways but not a Radar Tower receives a Radar Tower." [[section G.2]] from rule 301. Remove the sentence "There is a Garbage Can at each Elbonian Airways location." [[section A.7]] from rule 441. Create: {{ __Service Malls__ {*(Grid),1*} There exist passable SOs called Service Malls. At the beginning of each nweek, if there are Grid Squares with x and y coordinates that are both integral multiples of 6 that do not contain Service Malls, a random one of them gains a Service Mall, and the Gremlin fund loses 10 points (repairs), unless the Gremlin Fund has no points, in which case the Mall is not created. Each Service Mall consists of the following: 1 Elbonian Airways 1 Garbage Can 1 Radar Tower When a Bomb Gnome Explodes at the location of a Service Mall, the Service Mall and all its components are destroyed. [[Other elements may be added later.]] }} }} -- Wonko From dave@technopagan.org Sat, 14 Sep 2002 22:03:57 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 22:03:57 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Bandwidth On Sat, 14 Sep 2002, Glotmorf wrote: > Also fortunately, we're almost at the end of nweek 23, so the > end-of-r212 problem will go away. Did anyone actually exceed their > erstwhile bandwidth this nweek? We're still in nweek 22; the free-unlimited-bandwidth hasn't even *started* yet. (I probably shouldn't point that out... ;) ...dave From glotmorf@earthlink.net Sun, 15 Sep 2002 04:00:37 -0400 Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 04:00:37 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] CFI -- Prop 958 Does it strike you just how weird it is, the sides each of us are taking on= this? On 9/14/02 at 10:36 PM Wonko wrote: >[[I hate to do this, but hey, that's what the rules say. *sigh* There goes >4.8 mill. :-( ]] > >Quoth Glotmorf, > >> I make the following CFI: >> >> Statement: >> >> Voting in favor of Proposal 958 is in violation of Rules 897 and 636; >> therefore, affirmative votes for Proposal 958 cannot be counted. >> >> Analysis: >> >> Shillings are objects. Wonko's shillings are in Wonko's possession. >Rule 897 >> says "B Nomic Shillings may only be manipulated as specified in the >rules." >> Rule 636 says "no player may modify the state of any object in >possession of >> another player, without the other player's explicit permission in a >public >> forum." Wonko did not give permission in a public forum for eir >shillings to >> be modified. Therefore, it is illegal for any player to vote in favor >of a >> proposal that modifies Wonko's shillings, e.g. by transferring them to >the >> Bank. > >Rule 15 states that "When a proposal passes, the following effects occur= in >order: >* >* The effects specified in the proposal occur in the order listed in the >proposal. " > >It supercedes rule 897, therefore proposing to manipulate shillings is >legal. Nice try, except for Rule 10: "All game entities and the Administrator must= abide by all the Rules in effect, in the form in which they are in effect.= No Proposal may attempt to temporarily circumvent the Rules. No Game= Action may circumvent or repress the Rules at any time. This Rule shall= always take precedence over all other Rules." Therefore, the proposal can't circumvent r897, since it has to obey all the= rules. >As for rule 636, the act of voting does not modify the shillings, it >modifies the player's vote (andz possibly also the proposal - that's >subject >to interpretation). The actual modification of my shillings is performed= by >rule 15 when it implements the proposal, and thus rule 636 doesn't get in >the way. To say that r15 is the acting agent for the actions in a proposal is like= saying a road is an acting agent for the actions of the driver of a car.= R15 doesn't cause proposals to be implemented; it only dictates when, if= at all, they should be implemented. The administrator is not the acting= agent for the proposal's actions; he merely updates the semiphysical= manifestation of the game state to reflect them. Even the proposing= player isn't the acting agent for the implementation, since all e does is= make an implementation using eir proposal possible. The acting agent for= implementing a proposal is the body of players that vote in favor of it,= and who are thus responsible for it being implemented. Glotmorf From glotmorf@earthlink.net Sun, 15 Sep 2002 04:02:32 -0400 Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 04:02:32 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Bandwidth On 9/14/02 at 10:42 PM Wonko wrote: >Quoth Glotmorf, > >>> Incidentally, if they aren't in conflict, then we have a SOE - r212= says >>> that it doesn't apply during nweek 23, but the sentence that says that, >>> according to itself, doesn't apply right now. It's the classic "This >>> statement is False" paradox, and the only way we can know whether or= not >>> there's a bandwidth limit is if another rule supercedes poor broken= r212 >>> and >>> sets the limit. >>> >>> Fortunately, r19 does this for us. >> >> Also fortunately, we're almost at the end of nweek 23, so the= end-of-r212 >> problem will go away. Did anyone actually exceed their erstwhile >bandwidth >> this nweek? > >Last nweek was nweek 22. Nweek 23 just began, with the stoppage of the >clock >for vote counting. Hm. Can I have an "aw shit" from the congregation? No? Well, perhaps in response to my next proposal... Glotmorf From glotmorf@earthlink.net Sun, 15 Sep 2002 04:04:51 -0400 Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 04:04:51 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Service Malls On 9/14/02 at 10:51 PM Wonko wrote: >There exist passable SOs called Service Malls. At the beginning of each >nweek, if there are Grid Squares with x and y coordinates that are both >integral multiples of 6 that do not contain Service Malls, a random one of >them gains a Service Mall, and the Gremlin fund loses 10 points (repairs), >unless the Gremlin Fund has no points, in which case the Mall is not >created. Each Service Mall consists of the following: > >1 Elbonian Airways >1 Garbage Can >1 Radar Tower > >When a Bomb Gnome Explodes at the location of a Service Mall, the Service >Mall and all its components are destroyed. Couldn't we just build a tasteful memorial? Glotmorf From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Sun, 15 Sep 2002 11:05:13 -0400 Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 11:05:13 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] CFI -- Prop 958 Quoth Glotmorf, > Does it strike you just how weird it is, the sides each of us are taking on > this? > > On 9/14/02 at 10:36 PM Wonko wrote: > >> [[I hate to do this, but hey, that's what the rules say. *sigh* There goes >> 4.8 mill. :-( ]] >> >> Quoth Glotmorf, >> >>> I make the following CFI: >>> >>> Statement: >>> >>> Voting in favor of Proposal 958 is in violation of Rules 897 and 636; >>> therefore, affirmative votes for Proposal 958 cannot be counted. >>> >>> Analysis: >>> >>> Shillings are objects. Wonko's shillings are in Wonko's possession. >> Rule 897 >>> says "B Nomic Shillings may only be manipulated as specified in the >> rules." >>> Rule 636 says "no player may modify the state of any object in >> possession of >>> another player, without the other player's explicit permission in a >> public >>> forum." Wonko did not give permission in a public forum for eir >> shillings to >>> be modified. Therefore, it is illegal for any player to vote in favor >> of a >>> proposal that modifies Wonko's shillings, e.g. by transferring them to >> the >>> Bank. >> >> Rule 15 states that "When a proposal passes, the following effects occur in >> order: >> * >> * The effects specified in the proposal occur in the order listed in the >> proposal. " >> >> It supercedes rule 897, therefore proposing to manipulate shillings is >> legal. > > Nice try, except for Rule 10: "All game entities and the Administrator must > abide by all the Rules in effect, in the form in which they are in effect. No > Proposal may attempt to temporarily circumvent the Rules. No Game Action may > circumvent or repress the Rules at any time. This Rule shall always take > precedence over all other Rules." > > Therefore, the proposal can't circumvent r897, since it has to obey all the > rules. The proposal isn't required to obey each rule individually, it's required to obey the Ruleset as a whole. Thus, it's not required to follow r897 if another portion of the Rules says that it doesn't have to. In this case, rule 15 is the rule which says that it MUST be implemented. As r15 supersedes r897, r15 is the one that the proposal is required to follow, and r897 doesn't restrict it. >> As for rule 636, the act of voting does not modify the shillings, it >> modifies the player's vote (and possibly also the proposal - that's >> subject >> to interpretation). The actual modification of my shillings is performed by >> rule 15 when it implements the proposal, and thus rule 636 doesn't get in >> the way. > > To say that r15 is the acting agent for the actions in a proposal is like > saying a road is an acting agent for the actions of the driver of a car. R15 > doesn't cause proposals to be implemented; it only dictates when, if at all, > they should be implemented. The administrator is not the acting agent for the > proposal's actions; he merely updates the semiphysical manifestation of the > game state to reflect them. Even the proposing player isn't the acting agent > for the implementation, since all e does is make an implementation using eir > proposal possible. The acting agent for implementing a proposal is the body > of players that vote in favor of it, and who are thus responsible for it being > implemented. Rule 15 is most definitely the object which causes a proposal to be implemented. Without r15.H, proposals could be made, voted on, and deemed to have passed/failed, but since nothing ever tries to implement them, they'd never *do* anything. Your driver analogy breaks down because the driver can drive without the road (though e may not enjoy it), whereas proposals cannot be implemented without r15.H. A better analogy might be if a driver were driving by telling the road what e wanted to do, and the road was moving em accordingly. The road is then one actually responsible for doing the moving; the driver is just requesting to be moved. A proposal is, after all, nothing more than "a formal request for a set of Rule Changes or other changes to the game state". -- Wonko From glotmorf@earthlink.net Sun, 15 Sep 2002 17:07:09 -0400 Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 17:07:09 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] CFI -- Prop 958 On 9/15/02 at 11:05 AM Wonko wrote: >Quoth Glotmorf, > >> Does it strike you just how weird it is, the sides each of us are taking >on >> this? >> >> On 9/14/02 at 10:36 PM Wonko wrote: >> >>> [[I hate to do this, but hey, that's what the rules say. *sigh* There >goes >>> 4.8 mill. :-( ]] >>> >>> Quoth Glotmorf, >>> >>>> I make the following CFI: >>>> >>>> Statement: >>>> >>>> Voting in favor of Proposal 958 is in violation of Rules 897 and 636; >>>> therefore, affirmative votes for Proposal 958 cannot be counted. >>>> >>>> Analysis: >>>> >>>> Shillings are objects. Wonko's shillings are in Wonko's possession. >>> Rule 897 >>>> says "B Nomic Shillings may only be manipulated as specified in the >>> rules." >>>> Rule 636 says "no player may modify the state of any object in >>> possession of >>>> another player, without the other player's explicit permission in a >>> public >>>> forum." Wonko did not give permission in a public forum for eir >>> shillings to >>>> be modified. Therefore, it is illegal for any player to vote in favor >>> of a >>>> proposal that modifies Wonko's shillings, e.g. by transferring them to >>> the >>>> Bank. >>> >>> Rule 15 states that "When a proposal passes, the following effects >occur in >>> order: >>> * >>> * The effects specified in the proposal occur in the order listed in= the >>> proposal. " >>> >>> It supercedes rule 897, therefore proposing to manipulate shillings is >>> legal. >> >> Nice try, except for Rule 10: "All game entities and the Administrator >must >> abide by all the Rules in effect, in the form in which they are in >effect. No >> Proposal may attempt to temporarily circumvent the Rules. No Game Action >may >> circumvent or repress the Rules at any time. This Rule shall always take >> precedence over all other Rules." >> >> Therefore, the proposal can't circumvent r897, since it has to obey all >the >> rules. > >The proposal isn't required to obey each rule individually, it's required >to >obey the Ruleset as a whole. Thus, it's not required to follow r897 if >another portion of the Rules says that it doesn't have to. In this case, >rule 15 is the rule which says that it MUST be implemented. As r15 >supersedes r897, r15 is the one that the proposal is required to follow, >and >r897 doesn't restrict it. If the proposal is required to obey the ruleset as a whole, then no= individual part of said ruleset can be taken out of context of the rest of= it. Which means one can't just say that a proposal is automatically= implemented because r15 says it is. Said proposal must be legitimate= according to the rest of the ruleset too, including that part that says= shillings can only be manipulated the way the rules say. >>> As for rule 636, the act of voting does not modify the shillings, it >>> modifies the player's vote (and possibly also the proposal - that's >>> subject >>> to interpretation). The actual modification of my shillings is >performed by >>> rule 15 when it implements the proposal, and thus rule 636 doesn't get >in >>> the way. >> >> To say that r15 is the acting agent for the actions in a proposal is= like >> saying a road is an acting agent for the actions of the driver of a car. > R15 >> doesn't cause proposals to be implemented; it only dictates when, if at >all, >> they should be implemented. The administrator is not the acting agent >for the >> proposal's actions; he merely updates the semiphysical manifestation of >the >> game state to reflect them. Even the proposing player isn't the acting >agent >> for the implementation, since all e does is make an implementation using >eir >> proposal possible. The acting agent for implementing a proposal is the >body >> of players that vote in favor of it, and who are thus responsible for it >being >> implemented. > >Rule 15 is most definitely the object which causes a proposal to be >implemented. Without r15.H, proposals could be made, voted on, and deemed >to >have passed/failed, but since nothing ever tries to implement them, they'd >never *do* anything. Your driver analogy breaks down because the driver= can >drive without the road (though e may not enjoy it), whereas proposals >cannot >be implemented without r15.H. > A better analogy might be if a driver were driving by telling the road >what e wanted to do, and the road was moving em accordingly. The road is >then one actually responsible for doing the moving; the driver is just >requesting to be moved. A proposal is, after all, nothing more than "a >formal request for a set of Rule Changes or other changes to the game >state". And said request is decided on by the bulk of the playership. With their= affirmative votes, the proposal becomes a set of changes to the game state= to be performed. Somehow I suspect said changes would get performed= despite the absence of a specific sentence in Rule 15 saying they shall= be. Glotmorf From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Sun, 15 Sep 2002 18:54:02 -0400 Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 18:54:02 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] CFI -- Prop 958 On Sunday 15 September 2002 05:07 pm, Glotmorf wrote: > And said request is decided on by the bulk of the playership. With the= ir > affirmative votes, the proposal becomes a set of changes to the game st= ate > to be performed. Somehow I suspect said changes would get performed > despite the absence of a specific sentence in Rule 15 saying they shall= be. I suspect that this rule as been "violated" in the past. Meaning the stat= ute=20 of limitation takes effect. So there. --=20 bd I read Playboy for the same reason I read National Geographic. To see the sights I'm never going to visit. From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Sun, 15 Sep 2002 19:46:29 -0500 Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 19:46:29 -0500 From: Orc In A Spacesuit orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] NWEEK 22 BALLOT Appearently, this wasn't sent the first time. If you get multiples of this, ignore all but one. Well, I'm back. First thing: my votes: Proposal 943/0: Precipitation (The Voice) yes - needs work, and if it fails, clean it up Proposal 951/1: Cleaning Up After Wonko's Cleanup (M-Tek) yes Proposal 952/0: Nweek 22 Insta-Prop (House Grem) no Proposal 953/0: Cleaning Up (bd) no Proposal 954/0: Insider trading is illegal (bd) yes - I think it's funny Proposal 955/0: Nseasons, v.2 (The Voice) no - I can pronounce Grinps just fine, but think it's pointless and headache-incuing Proposal 956/0: He Had Killer Charm. Well... Winning Charm (The Voice) no - needs a check. Maybe require at least 1 point of respect, no BAC, and something else the players can affect/do directly. Proposal 957/0: Less is More: The Ruleset (bd) no - Applying the first revision of my uber-prop is stupid, and I think nobody wants that. Proposal 958/3: Wealth Control (Athena) yes Proposal 959/0: A Little More: Ministries (The Administrator) yes - although I think The Chairman should have the power to nullify transactions deemed nuts, and affect the general rules for the bank, rather than just carrying them out. Proposal 960/0: What the Hell is an Agent? (Mithrandir) yes Proposal 961/0: Yesterday's News (Mithrandir) yes Proposal 962/0: Solving one of the Quest's Problems (Mithrandir) yes Proposal 963/0: Oh Yes, You'll Pay (Mithrandir) yes - faulty, but yes Proposal 964/0: There was Something Else... Oh Yeah, a Scapegoat! (Mithrandir) yes - pick me! pick me! Proposal 965/0: Night of the Living Dead Stock Market (M-Tek) yes, conditional on the Admin not objecting. If the Admin objects, my vote is instead no. Proposal 966/1: Graves, Make That my New Motto (Baron von Skippy) no - I like it, but don't think it should be official. Plus, I want to get my points for voting against the majority :). Proposal 967/1: Healthy Competition, My Ass (Baron von Skippy) no - towels are overpowered for their cost, I still don't like certain people getting discounts, whether or not I could easily join vSOI. Plus, more points for voting against the majority :). Proposal 968/1: And now, the Dramatic Conclusion (Baron von Skippy) yes - needs a bit of work, but that'll come later. Proposal 969/4: The Game is Afoot! I'll Take "Anal Bum Covers" for 7,000 (Baron von Skippy) yes - Celebrity Jeopardy gets my vote any day. But I would revise it a bit if I could. Proposal 970/0: Eddie's in the Space-Time Continuum (Baron von Skippy) yes Proposal 971/1: untitled champagne proposal (Squire of Dimness) no - it's not a complete solution Proposal 972/0: Marching through Wall Street (Glotmorf) no - makes stocks still confusing Proposal 973/0: Public Exposure (Glotmorf) yes Proposal 974/0: Bad Dog! (Orc In a Spacesuit) yes Proposal 975/0: Towel Racks (bd) yes Proposal 976/0: These Titles Ought To Last (Orc In a Spacesuit) yes Proposal 978/0: Can't Touch This (Orc In a Spacesuit) yes Proposal 979/0: This Wasn't In My Job Description... (Glotmorf) yes, conditional on __Proposal 959 :A Little More: Ministries__ having enough votes to pass; otherwise, no. Proposal 980/0: A bit of Exorc. (Wonko) no - we need a breather. Figure out a better way. Proposal 981/0: A bit more Exorc. (Wonko) no - I agree that's bad, but again, figure out a better way. We really do need a counter to force skills. Proposal 982/0: A little more (Wonko) no - If the reference becomes no longer obsolete, then it'll still be there. And if it's obsolete, it won't hurt anything. Proposal 983/0: And finally... (Wonko) no Proposal 984/0: Fixing the Stock Market (Wonko) no - doesn't really fix the system. Proposal 985/0: Ambassador Biweekly (Athena) no - it needs to be more metric, like someone else said. And since the end of an even nweek is an nweek away, you still have time to fix it. Also, you should be able to make announcements at any time, but only get points for one if it's the first one during an even nweek, or perhaps the metric combine the value of all announcements during the past 2 nweeks at the end of every even nweek. Proposal 986/0: The World is An Atheist's Temple (Athena) yes - but if it fails, make it limbo Proposal 987/0: Lord of the Stock Scam (Athena) yes Proposal 989/0: Mutations BAD! Krunk smash! (bd) no - why are mutations bad? Orc In A Spacesuit Current Status: Trying to catch up. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Sun, 15 Sep 2002 19:33:58 -0500 Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 19:33:58 -0500 From: Orc In A Spacesuit orcinaspacesuit@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] NWEEK 22 BALLOT Well, I'm back, and I apoligize for multiple posts, but I am not sure which forums are public or whatnot. First thing: my votes: Proposal 943/0: Precipitation (The Voice) yes - needs work, and if it fails, clean it up Proposal 951/1: Cleaning Up After Wonko's Cleanup (M-Tek) yes Proposal 952/0: Nweek 22 Insta-Prop (House Grem) no Proposal 953/0: Cleaning Up (bd) no Proposal 954/0: Insider trading is illegal (bd) yes - I think it's funny Proposal 955/0: Nseasons, v.2 (The Voice) no - I can pronounce Grinps just fine, but think it's pointless and headache-incuing Proposal 956/0: He Had Killer Charm. Well... Winning Charm (The Voice) no - needs a check. Maybe require at least 1 point of respect, no BAC, and something else the players can affect/do directly. Proposal 957/0: Less is More: The Ruleset (bd) no - Applying the first revision of my uber-prop is stupid, and I think nobody wants that. Proposal 958/3: Wealth Control (Athena) yes Proposal 959/0: A Little More: Ministries (The Administrator) yes - although I think The Chairman should have the power to nullify transactions deemed nuts, and affect the general rules for the bank, rather than just carrying them out. Proposal 960/0: What the Hell is an Agent? (Mithrandir) yes Proposal 961/0: Yesterday's News (Mithrandir) yes Proposal 962/0: Solving one of the Quest's Problems (Mithrandir) yes Proposal 963/0: Oh Yes, You'll Pay (Mithrandir) yes - faulty, but yes Proposal 964/0: There was Something Else... Oh Yeah, a Scapegoat! (Mithrandir) yes - pick me! pick me! Proposal 965/0: Night of the Living Dead Stock Market (M-Tek) yes, conditional on the Admin not objecting. If the Admin objects, my vote is instead no. Proposal 966/1: Graves, Make That my New Motto (Baron von Skippy) no - I like it, but don't think it should be official. Plus, I want to get my points for voting against the majority :). Proposal 967/1: Healthy Competition, My Ass (Baron von Skippy) no - towels are overpowered for their cost, I still don't like certain people getting discounts, whether or not I could easily join vSOI. Plus, more points for voting against the majority :). Proposal 968/1: And now, the Dramatic Conclusion (Baron von Skippy) yes - needs a bit of work, but that'll come later. Proposal 969/4: The Game is Afoot! I'll Take "Anal Bum Covers" for 7,000 (Baron von Skippy) yes - Celebrity Jeopardy gets my vote any day. But I would revise it a bit if I could. Proposal 970/0: Eddie's in the Space-Time Continuum (Baron von Skippy) yes Proposal 971/1: untitled champagne proposal (Squire of Dimness) no - it's not a complete solution Proposal 972/0: Marching through Wall Street (Glotmorf) no - makes stocks still confusing Proposal 973/0: Public Exposure (Glotmorf) yes Proposal 974/0: Bad Dog! (Orc In a Spacesuit) yes Proposal 975/0: Towel Racks (bd) yes Proposal 976/0: These Titles Ought To Last (Orc In a Spacesuit) yes Proposal 978/0: Can't Touch This (Orc In a Spacesuit) yes Proposal 979/0: This Wasn't In My Job Description... (Glotmorf) yes, conditional on __Proposal 959 :A Little More: Ministries__ having enough votes to pass; otherwise, no. Proposal 980/0: A bit of Exorc. (Wonko) no - we need a breather. Figure out a better way. Proposal 981/0: A bit more Exorc. (Wonko) no - I agree that's bad, but again, figure out a better way. We really do need a counter to force skills. Proposal 982/0: A little more (Wonko) no - If the reference becomes no longer obsolete, then it'll still be there. And if it's obsolete, it won't hurt anything. Proposal 983/0: And finally... (Wonko) no Proposal 984/0: Fixing the Stock Market (Wonko) no - doesn't really fix the system. Proposal 985/0: Ambassador Biweekly (Athena) no - it needs to be more metric, like someone else said. And since the end of an even nweek is an nweek away, you still have time to fix it. Also, you should be able to make announcements at any time, but only get points for one if it's the first one during an even nweek, or perhaps the metric combine the value of all announcements during the past 2 nweeks at the end of every even nweek. Proposal 986/0: The World is An Atheist's Temple (Athena) yes - but if it fails, make it limbo Proposal 987/0: Lord of the Stock Scam (Athena) yes Proposal 989/0: Mutations BAD! Krunk smash! (bd) no - why are mutations bad? Orc In A Spacesuit Current Status: Trying to catch up. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Sun, 15 Sep 2002 22:08:49 -0400 Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 22:08:49 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] CFI -- Prop 958 Quoth Glotmorf, > On 9/15/02 at 11:05 AM Wonko wrote: > >> Quoth Glotmorf, >> >>> Does it strike you just how weird it is, the sides each of us are taking >> on >>> this? >>> >>> On 9/14/02 at 10:36 PM Wonko wrote: >>> >>>> [[I hate to do this, but hey, that's what the rules say. *sigh* There >> goes >>>> 4.8 mill. :-( ]] >>>> >>>> Quoth Glotmorf, >>>> >>>>> I make the following CFI: >>>>> >>>>> Statement: >>>>> >>>>> Voting in favor of Proposal 958 is in violation of Rules 897 and 636; >>>>> therefore, affirmative votes for Proposal 958 cannot be counted. >>>>> >>>>> Analysis: >>>>> >>>>> Shillings are objects. Wonko's shillings are in Wonko's possession. >>>> Rule 897 >>>>> says "B Nomic Shillings may only be manipulated as specified in the >>>> rules." >>>>> Rule 636 says "no player may modify the state of any object in >>>> possession of >>>>> another player, without the other player's explicit permission in a >>>> public >>>>> forum." Wonko did not give permission in a public forum for eir >>>> shillings to >>>>> be modified. Therefore, it is illegal for any player to vote in favor >>>> of a >>>>> proposal that modifies Wonko's shillings, e.g. by transferring them to >>>> the >>>>> Bank. >>>> >>>> Rule 15 states that "When a proposal passes, the following effects >> occur in >>>> order: >>>> * >>>> * The effects specified in the proposal occur in the order listed in the >>>> proposal. " >>>> >>>> It supercedes rule 897, therefore proposing to manipulate shillings is >>>> legal. >>> >>> Nice try, except for Rule 10: "All game entities and the Administrator >> must >>> abide by all the Rules in effect, in the form in which they are in >> effect. No >>> Proposal may attempt to temporarily circumvent the Rules. No Game Action >> may >>> circumvent or repress the Rules at any time. This Rule shall always take >>> precedence over all other Rules." >>> >>> Therefore, the proposal can't circumvent r897, since it has to obey all >> the >>> rules. >> >> The proposal isn't required to obey each rule individually, it's required >> to >> obey the Ruleset as a whole. Thus, it's not required to follow r897 if >> another portion of the Rules says that it doesn't have to. In this case, >> rule 15 is the rule which says that it MUST be implemented. As r15 >> supersedes r897, r15 is the one that the proposal is required to follow, >> and >> r897 doesn't restrict it. > > If the proposal is required to obey the ruleset as a whole, then no individual > part of said ruleset can be taken out of context of the rest of it. Which > means one can't just say that a proposal is automatically implemented because > r15 says it is. Said proposal must be legitimate according to the rest of the > ruleset too, including that part that says shillings can only be manipulated > the way the rules say. No, it only must be legitimate according to all the rules which supersede r15. For the rest, r15 takes precedence and the proposal is implemented anyway. >>>> As for rule 636, the act of voting does not modify the shillings, it >>>> modifies the player's vote (and possibly also the proposal - that's >>>> subject >>>> to interpretation). The actual modification of my shillings is >> performed by >>>> rule 15 when it implements the proposal, and thus rule 636 doesn't get >> in >>>> the way. >>> >>> To say that r15 is the acting agent for the actions in a proposal is like >>> saying a road is an acting agent for the actions of the driver of a car. >> R15 >>> doesn't cause proposals to be implemented; it only dictates when, if at >> all, >>> they should be implemented. The administrator is not the acting agent >> for the >>> proposal's actions; he merely updates the semiphysical manifestation of >> the >>> game state to reflect them. Even the proposing player isn't the acting >> agent >>> for the implementation, since all e does is make an implementation using >> eir >>> proposal possible. The acting agent for implementing a proposal is the >> body >>> of players that vote in favor of it, and who are thus responsible for it >> being >>> implemented. >> >> Rule 15 is most definitely the object which causes a proposal to be >> implemented. Without r15.H, proposals could be made, voted on, and deemed >> to >> have passed/failed, but since nothing ever tries to implement them, they'd >> never *do* anything. Your driver analogy breaks down because the driver can >> drive without the road (though e may not enjoy it), whereas proposals >> cannot >> be implemented without r15.H. >> A better analogy might be if a driver were driving by telling the road >> what e wanted to do, and the road was moving em accordingly. The road is >> then one actually responsible for doing the moving; the driver is just >> requesting to be moved. A proposal is, after all, nothing more than "a >> formal request for a set of Rule Changes or other changes to the game >> state". > > And said request is decided on by the bulk of the playership. With their > affirmative votes, the proposal becomes a set of changes to the game state to > be performed. Somehow I suspect said changes would get performed despite the > absence of a specific sentence in Rule 15 saying they shall be. No, they wouldn't. That's why every Nomic ruleset you'll ever see will have a sentence like that in the ruleset. -- Wonko From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Sun, 15 Sep 2002 22:38:15 -0400 Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 22:38:15 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Bandwidth > >>> Incidentally, if they aren't in conflict, then we have a SOE - r212 >says > >>> that it doesn't apply during nweek 23, but the sentence that says >that, > >>> according to itself, doesn't apply right now. It's the classic "This > >>> statement is False" paradox, and the only way we can know whether or >not > >>> there's a bandwidth limit is if another rule supercedes poor broken >r212 > >>> and > >>> sets the limit. > >>> > >>> Fortunately, r19 does this for us. > >> > >> Also fortunately, we're almost at the end of nweek 23, so the >end-of-r212 > >> problem will go away. Did anyone actually exceed their erstwhile > >bandwidth > >> this nweek? > > > >Last nweek was nweek 22. Nweek 23 just began, with the stoppage of the > >clock > >for vote counting. > >Hm. Can I have an "aw shit" from the congregation? -Congregation? Are you the fifth God of B Nomic?- > >No? Well, perhaps in response to my next proposal... -Aw shi-it...- > > Glotmorf > [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Sun, 15 Sep 2002 22:39:42 -0400 Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 22:39:42 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Service Malls > >There exist passable SOs called Service Malls. At the beginning of each > >nweek, if there are Grid Squares with x and y coordinates that are both > >integral multiples of 6 that do not contain Service Malls, a random one >of > >them gains a Service Mall, and the Gremlin fund loses 10 points >(repairs), > >unless the Gremlin Fund has no points, in which case the Mall is not > >created. Each Service Mall consists of the following: > > > >1 Elbonian Airways > >1 Garbage Can > >1 Radar Tower > > > >When a Bomb Gnome Explodes at the location of a Service Mall, the Service > >Mall and all its components are destroyed. > >Couldn't we just build a tasteful memorial? > > Glotmorf > -When was the last time we did anything tasteful in this game? Hey, what if people could own Service Malls, and you could bomb your rival's malls? Industrial-strength cans of whoop-ass?- [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Mon, 16 Sep 2002 00:37:15 -0400 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 00:37:15 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] NWEEK 22 BALLOT Quoth Orc In A Spacesuit, > Well, I'm back. First thing: my votes: Sorry, pal, but voting closed the day before yesterday. Now we're just waiting for the Clock to come back on following the Entropy Death of the Nomiverse (and the admin's vote counting time) -- Wonko From glotmorf@earthlink.net Mon, 16 Sep 2002 10:00:26 -0400 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 10:00:26 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Ultimate Democracy {{ _This Island Ain't Big Enough for Both of Us_ [[ "Frank." *Yes, sir?* "What's that noise out front?" *Uh...lotta people running around the parking lot. Looks like they're= trying to find something.* "Hm. Keep an eye on it. Call the police if it gets out of hand." *Yes, sir.* I tried to focus on the proposal. It was the fifth one I'd finalized that= day. Each took careful re-reading since it was destined for a government= that didn't necessarily understand idioms. Domestic proposals were much= easier -- just bury the details in enough bureaucratese and the whole= thing would be evaluated by the pound. But the domestic economy just= wasn't going to support us in the short run. I picked up the phone again. "Frank." *Yeah?* "What's that noise in the hallway?" *Security says one of the crowd got inside. They're trying to chase him= down.* "Joy. Don't hesitate to use the attack ferrets." I rubbed my eyes and stared at the paper again. We were going to need a= local office in that country to get around the technology export= restrictions... The door burst open and slammed shut again. "Hey, Frank, I'm trying to get something done here...Oh. What are you= doing here?" Wonko braced himself against the door, his eyes rolling wildly. "Hey.= Spare a drink for an old friend?" "Well, usually, yeah, but you can have one too. There's hard cider in the= fridge there." He hesitated, listening intently. "Are they coming?" "I didn't invite them. But then, I didn't invite you either." He looked at me then, and grimaced as our eyes met. "Yeah...sorry about= this. I, uh, just happened to be passing by..." I leaned back in my chair. "With a mob passing by right behind you..." "They're out to get me!" "Can't imagine why. You just bought out all their stocks, emptied their= bank and ruined their economy. How *is* the big corporate life treating= you these days?" "Look, can't a guy profit in today's society?" "Apparently, yes. I'm trying to do it too. Why are you in my office= again?" "I just..." He twisted the cap off of the bottle he'd fetched and took a= long pull of cider, then looked balefully at the bottle. He shook his= head and glanced at the window. "I just had to get away from them. They= hate me." "So you ran here?" "You don't hate me." "I didn't say that. I just have most of my investments in other currency." Wonko went very still, watching me. I sighed and rubbed my eyes. "Chill, dude, okay? If I really hated you I'd= push you out the front door." My phone rang. "Yes, Frank?" *The mob says it wants Wonko.* "Tell them that's not in our fall product line." *Right. Uh...is there anyone in there with you?* I glanced up at Wonko. "Nothing that's part of our fall product line." *Aw shit.* "Send someone from Marketing out to give them some spin." *What if he gets hurt?* "Pick the most drunk one." *Sure thing.* I hung up and studied Wonko. "Seems your public is asking for you." He steeled himself and took another drink. "Still got a dimship?" "Terrorists took out the lab. Don't you read the papers? Oh, wait, I= forgot. You *made* the papers." "I need some place to go. I can't go back out there! You're not gonna let= them have me, are you?" I contemplated him a moment. It would be so easy. One less irritant to= worry about. I stood up and wandered to the window, glancing out the= blinds at the scene below. "Ever hear of John Stuart Mill?" "Is that a historical landmark?" "It's a person. A philosopher. Big on personal liberty and individual= rights. Among his pet peeves was an idea he called 'tyranny of the= majority'. Basically, he thought it was just far too easy to say that if= something is good for everybody but one person, it was for the 'common= good', and therefore justifiable to deprive the one. The good of the= individual goes out the window." I smiled faintly. "Ultimate democracy.= The people speak, and the loudest group gets its way." Wonko finally started to relax. "And you're against that, right?" I turned back to look at him. "Yeah, I'm against that. Tax us, sure; we= get the government we pay for. Make us work harder for success; I love a= challenge. Anything that's fair to everyone, as long as everyone has a= chance to succeed. But not picking a target and robbing him blind, just= so everyone else can have a free meal. I'm against mob rule." "So...where does that leave us?" I stared at him. "I mean, me. Where does that leave me?" "You could give back the money." "I...could, yeah..." I looked at him reproachfully. When I saw it was having no effect, I= sighed, sat, and picked up the phone. "Joe? Hi, it's me. Sorry to bother you...What? Oh, yeah, that's my= parking lot the mob's in. Are the TV crews here already? Look, I just= wanted to say...You know that reality TV show you were asking me about,= and whether I thought it was too vicious for the public? I've changed my= mind. I think the public could use a little vicious right now. Might= make for a good draw...This week? Cool. Can we work up an ad campaign?= I was thinking reciprocal. I mean, if what you're telling me is true,= I've got live cameramen in my parking lot right now..." A short time later, Frank edged his way to the salesman trying to keep the= crowd at bay, and whispered in his ear. The man stiffened, then boldly= turned back to face the crowd. "Everyone, please disperse. There is no one and nothing called 'Wonko' in= this facility. We are not open to inspection by lynch mobs. The public= can't just gang up on individuals. It's not like you're playing= Nomvivor!" The crowd hesitated at that. What the hell was Nomvivor? "Go home, relax, cool off, watch Nomvivor on TV, and let the authorities= straighten all this out here in the real world. Thank you." The mob had lost its focus. Confusion rippled through the throng, and made= it start to fray. People started to drift off, one by one, two by two,= until there were nothing but cars in the front lot. Wonko watched from my window, and let out a shaky sigh. "I can't believe= it. It's over." "Crowds are a momentum thing, like waves. Throw up an interference pattern= and they collapse." "Whatever. I was never really into physics." He looked over at me. "So= what's Nomvivor anyway?" ]] {{ _Nomvivor_ There exists a player attribute called The Island. The Island can have one= of two states for a given player: "On" or "Off"; a player is thus thought= of as "On the Island" or "Off the Island", respectively. All players are= initially "Off the Island". If a player is "On the Island" but goes on= leave, e becomes "Off the Island". At the beginning of the nweek after this rule is implemented, all players= not on leave become On the Island. During each proposal voting period in which more than one player is On the= Island, each player On the Island can submit a vote to the Administrator,= either by email or public forum, naming another player who is On the= Island. A player cannot name emself in the vote. At the end of the voting period, naming votes are counted by the= Administrator. If a player On the Island didn't cast a vote before the= end of the voting period, a vote is cast for em, randomly naming a player= On the Island other than emself. The player On the Island who was named= most out of all players On the Island becomes Off the Island. In case of= a tie, votes are generated that randomly name players On the Island until= there is no tie. If, after votes are counted, there still remain multiple players On the= Island, the vote of the player who most recently became Off the Island is= counted during the following voting period. If, after a voting period, there is only one player On the Island, the= following events occur: - the player becomes Off the Island - the player receives the title, "Nweek ### Nomvivor", where ### is the= number of the nweek - the player receives (850 mod (<# of nweek> * 10)) points - at the beginning of the first nweek following in which there are three or= more players not on leave, all players become On the Island }} [[ Wonko blinked. "That's bloodthirsty." "That's tyranny of the majority." "Even if it's a majority of two?" "That just makes tyranny personal." ]] }} Glotmorf From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:13:53 -0400 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:13:53 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Ultimate Democracy On Monday 16 September 2002 10:00 am, Glotmorf wrote: > There exists a player attribute called The Island. The Island can have= one > of two states for a given player: "On" or "Off"; a player is thus thoug= ht > of as "On the Island" or "Off the Island", respectively. All players a= re > initially "Off the Island". If a player is "On the Island" but goes on > leave, e becomes "Off the Island". Since people can go Off the Island by going on and off leave, why not mak= e it=20 an opt-out thing? --=20 bd Teamwork is essential -- it allows you to blame someone else. From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:15:54 -0400 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:15:54 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Grid I move to 18,19. --=20 bd Not only is UNIX dead, it's starting to smell really bad. =09=09-- Rob Pike From glotmorf@earthlink.net Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:21:58 -0400 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:21:58 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Ultimate Democracy On 9/16/02 at 3:13 PM bd wrote: >On Monday 16 September 2002 10:00 am, Glotmorf wrote: >> There exists a player attribute called The Island. The Island can have >one >> of two states for a given player: "On" or "Off"; a player is thus= thought >> of as "On the Island" or "Off the Island", respectively. All players= are >> initially "Off the Island". If a player is "On the Island" but goes on >> leave, e becomes "Off the Island". > >Since people can go Off the Island by going on and off leave, why not make >it >an opt-out thing? Sure, that can be added in. You mean you flat-out wouldn't want to play?= Or anticipate someone else might not? Glotmorf From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:18:17 -0400 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:18:17 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Ultimate Democracy On Monday 16 September 2002 03:21 pm, Glotmorf wrote: > On 9/16/02 at 3:13 PM bd wrote: > >On Monday 16 September 2002 10:00 am, Glotmorf wrote: > >> There exists a player attribute called The Island. The Island can h= ave > > > >one > > > >> of two states for a given player: "On" or "Off"; a player is thus > >> thought of as "On the Island" or "Off the Island", respectively. Al= l > >> players are initially "Off the Island". If a player is "On the Isla= nd" > >> but goes on leave, e becomes "Off the Island". > > > >Since people can go Off the Island by going on and off leave, why not = make > >it > >an opt-out thing? > > Sure, that can be added in. You mean you flat-out wouldn't want to pla= y?=20 > Or anticipate someone else might not? Yes. --=20 bd A woman should have compassion. =09=09-- Kirk, "Catspaw", stardate 3018.2 From glotmorf@earthlink.net Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:21:04 -0400 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:21:04 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Changes to Island proposal In the proposal entitled, "This Island Ain't Big Enough for Both of Us": - Add to the first paragraph of the "Nomvivor" rule the text, "A player can= set emself to be Off the Island any time not during a voting period." - Add to the fourth paragraph of the "Nomvivor" rule the text, "The= Administrator announces the final vote totals, but not how individual= players voted, to the public forum. The Administrator does, however, keep= a record of how individual players voted, in case of dispute and/or= inquiry, until a Nomvivor is named." Glotmorf From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:39:48 -0400 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:39:48 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Admin Abils [[ Wow, writing proposals under the influence of it being 2 in the morning. Gotta love it! I honestly don't know what I was thinking when I wrote the 'story' in these, but I figure now that I've written it, I might as well propose it. It actually interests me somewhat... I must muse on this.]] {{ __Cleanliness__ [[ Fred turned and squinted away in the distance. He furrowed his brow. "Hey, Bob?" "Yeah, Fred?" "Whaddaya reckon those big black things down there are?" He pointed at an odd discoloring on the ground near the horizon. "Dunno, Fred. They look like curly brackets." "Yeah, that's what I thought, Bob. You know what?" "What?" "We're in a proposal." "WHAT?" "We're in a proposal, Bob." "What're we doing in a proposal?" "I have no idea." There was a whoosing in the distance, as of something moving very fast. Something big, black, and curly came ofer the horizon. "What in Limbo is that?!?" "Look out! It's the Text!" ]] Add to the list in rule XXXX of what the admin is empowered to do the following text: [[ "Whew! That was close!" "Did you see that colin at the end of it, Bob? That means it can't possibly be over! Stay down!" ]] *Amend the text of any rule to add, in comments, a note of clarification indicating the result of a CFI pertaining to the interpretation of that rule [[ "Is it over, Fred?" "I dunno, Bob. I don't see anything, but it's not unusual to have two, three, or even four or five things to add to a list in a proposal. I'd keep my head down, if I were you." Bob got up and looked around. "But it looks clear. I don't see anyth-" ]] *Amend the text of any rule by removing fragments of comment left in the rule by a Literary Form proposal. [[ Bob looked up into Fred's face. Both of them. "Wha... What happened?" "You got nailed by another list item, Bob! I told you to stay down. Those things move by like the dickens!" "Sorry, Fred." "Hey, look!" "What?" "It looks like more curly braces! We're leaving the proposal!" "What happens to us then, Fred?" "I dunno, Bob. We go out of scope, I guess." "That sounds bad, Fred." "It might very well be." Bob threw his hands into the air. "THE END IS NEAR! THE END IS NEAR! REPENT!" "Bob?" "Yes, Fred?" "Shut up, Bob." "Okay, Fred." And with that, the proposal ended. ]] }} {{ __More Cleanliness__ [[ "Fred?" "Yeah, Bob?" "It's happening again." "What's happening ag-" ]] Add to the list in rule XXXX of what the admin is empowered to do the following: [[ "Ow...." Fred rubbed his jaw and winced. "I tried to warn you, Fred." "Shut up, Bob" "Look, there's more!" They ducked. ]] *Amend the text of any rule so as to clarify an ambiguity in such a way as to enforce a Judge's decision regarding a CFI. [[ "I'm think I'm getting annoyed, Bob." "THE END IS NEAR! I HAVE SEEN THE CLOSE BRACKETS! IT IS THE END!" "Okay, Bob, I was wrong. *NOW* I'm annoyed!" WHACK! "Ow! What'd you do that for, Fred?" "Shut up, Bob." "Oh." ]] }} -- Wonko From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:41:20 -0400 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:41:20 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Speeder Integration [[ Remember when somebody asked the Baron why Speeders had to be picked up... And Baron said it was because e didn't want to write out all the nasty details? Well, I wrote out all the Nasty Details. I also added hit points and upgrade space. I've got some stuff I'd like to do with both of them... proposal pending. ]] {{ __Spiffiness with Speeders__ Create: {{ __Airspeeders__ {*(Speeder,Grid),2*} A. Creation There exist Passable MOs called Airspeeders, or simply Speeders. Each Speeder has four attributes: Upgrade Space, which is initially 10 Max Integrity, which is initially 100 Integrity, which is initially Max Integrity Speed, which is initially 5. Any player may pay 30 points to the Gnome Account to buy an Airspeeder, or 20 points if the player is a member of vSOI. When this happens, the Airspeeder that has just been purchased is placed on the Grid at the Service Mall closest to the purchasing player's location, or at a random Service Mall if the player does not occupy a Grid location. [[i.e., if they're in Limbo or being Thrown/Carried as a toad]] B. Boarding If a player owns an Airspeeder, and e is at that Airspeeder's location, and e is not in an Airspeeder, e may Board it, causing em to go inside that Airspeeder. A player who is in an Airspeeder is considered to be at the location of the airspeeder. If an Airspeeder takes a move, all objects in it are moved with it. C. Moving If a player is in an Airspeeder which e owns, e may cause that Airspeeder to Move to an adjacent, legal location. E may do this only if e has taken no moves outside of an Airspeeder that nweek. If a player moves in an Airspeeder, e may not move while not in that Airspeeder for the rest of the nweek. Each Airspeeder may not move in this way more than n times per nweek, where n is that Airspeeder's speed. If an Airspeeder's Integrity is less than half of its Max Integrity, it may not move in this way more than 2n/3 times per nweek, rounded up, where n is that Airspeeder's speed. If an Airspeeder's Integrity is less than one quarter of its Max Integrity, it may not move in this way more than n/3 times per nweek, rounded down, where n is that Airspeeder's speed. Whenever a player moves while in an Airspeeder, if e possessess the Football, e drops it before moving. D. Disembarking A player may Disembark from an Airspeeder which e is in at any time. This causes em to leave the Airspeeder. If a player is removed from an Airspeeder by any other means, e is considered to have Disembarked. E. Destruction If an Airspeeder is destroyed, all players in it are thrown Elbonia-style at the Airspeeder's location, and a Large Lump of Scrap Metal is created where the Speeder was. If an Airspeeder's integrity is zero or lower, it is immediately destroyed. If a single event lowers an Airspeeder's integrity by 20 points or more, but does not reduce the Speeder's integrity to less than 1, a Small Lump of Scrap Metal is created at the Speeder's location. [[Little bits get blown off]] When a bomb gnome explodes on a square occupied by a Speeder, that Speeder loses 14 points of integrity. When an Ancient Monolith explodes within two squares of a Speeder, that Speeder loses 10 points of integrity. When a Speeder enters a square of substance Fire, or when the substance of a Speeder's location changes from some substance other than Fire to Fire, the Speeder's integrity decreases by 3. }} Append to rule 301 the following subsections, relettering them accordingly: {{ X. Small Lumps of Scrap Metal Small Lumps of Scrap Metal are Carryable, Throwable, Passable MO's. They may also be called simply Small Lumps. Y. Large Lumps of Scrap Metal Large Lumps of Scrap Metal are Carryable, Passable MO's. They may also be called simply Large Lumps. No player may carry more than 2 Large Lumps at once. [[They're carryable, but HEAVY!]] }} -- Wonko From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:42:35 -0400 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:42:35 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] CFI -- Prop 958 Quoth Glotmorf, > [[ I hate to do this, but this is how the rules are built right now. I hate > to say I told you so...hey, who am I kidding? ]] > > I make the following CFI: > > Statement: > > Voting in favor of Proposal 958 is in violation of Rules 897 and 636; > therefore, affirmative votes for Proposal 958 cannot be counted. > > Analysis: > > Shillings are objects. Wonko's shillings are in Wonko's possession. Rule 897 > says "B Nomic Shillings may only be manipulated as specified in the rules." > Rule 636 says "no player may modify the state of any object in possession of > another player, without the other player's explicit permission in a public > forum." Wonko did not give permission in a public forum for eir shillings to > be modified. Therefore, it is illegal for any player to vote in favor of a > proposal that modifies Wonko's shillings, e.g. by transferring them to the > Bank. I disagree with this interpretation, but just in case, I give all BNS I possess in excess of 500 to the Bank. -- Wonko From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:45:57 -0400 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:45:57 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Jail [[ Note: The proposal below, in my opinion, could have a pretty good nomilogue to go with it. But I don't have time to write one. So if anyone else can suggest a good one, I'll amend this proposal to include it, and give say, all but one point of the proceeds to the author. Any takers?]] I submit the following proposal: {{ __Crime Doesn't Pay__ Create the following rules: {{ __Criminal Behavior__ {*(Criminal),2*} Players may have the Attribute 'Wanted'. This attribute may be gained or lost only as specified by the rules. A player immediately becomes Wanted when any of the following occurs: *That player is kicked in the Ass four or more times within the same nweek *A Bomb Gnome which that Player has Thrown Explodes on an Elbonian Airways location *A Bomb Gnome which that Player has Thrown Explodes at the location of a Cop's Speeder. }} {{ __Jail__ {*(Grid,Points,Criminal),4*} There exist 6 Grid Squares called Cells. The group of all Cells may be collectively reffered to as Jail. The 6 Cells have the following coordinates, respectively: (1,-5) (4,-5) (7,-5) (10,-5) (13,-5) (16,-5) All Cells always are of substance Earth. Players who are in Jail may not: *Move from one Grid Square to another *Spend BNS, unless a rule forces em to *Catch Thrown Objects *Throw Objects *Give Kicks in the Ass *Gain points if e has already gained 20 or more points that nweek. If a player would gain BNS while in jail, the BNS they would gain is put in eir Bail Fund instead. If a player has been in jail for an nweek, e may then pay 300 BNS to be released from jail. Any BNS in eir Bail Fund is automatically put towards this cost. When a player is released from jail, e is put on a random Service Mall location, and any BNS left in eir Bail Fund is transferred to eir possession. }} {{ __The Police__ {*(Gremlin,Grid,Criminal,Speeder),2*} There exist three Gremlins called the Police Gremlins. They may individually be reffered to as the First Police Gremlin, the Second Police Gremlin, and the Third Police Gremlin, or Cops # 1, 2, and 3. [[If anyone comes up with more creative names, let me know]] If at any time one of the Cops becomes Active, it is immediately given an Airspeeder and placed on a randomly selected Service Mall. At the beginning of each nweek, all Cops that are Hiding become Active. Whenever a Cop's Airspeeder is destroyed, the Cop in question goes into Hiding. Each Cop is said to be able to see all squares within five units of eir location, and all Grid Objects (including players) who are on those squares. At the end of each nweek, all Cops who are Active move eir Airspeeders as many times as they can, moving each time in the legal direction which would bring em closer to the Wanted player who is nearest to em and who can be seen by a Cop. [[If any of them can see you, they all chase you]] If multiple wanted players can be seen by a Cop, and they are all equidistant from a Cop who needs to move, the moving Cop will choose one at random to move towards. If a Cop occupies a square that is also occupied by a Wanted player, that player is Apprehended, loses the attribute Wanted, and is put in a random empty Jail Cell. }} }} -- Wonko From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:53:51 -0400 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:53:51 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: WBE [[ It's like vSOI, except spiffier. Wow, I should make that the company motto. It's another company which will produce things, except with some of the realism which Orc was complaining was absent from vSOI - it has a limited supply of resources, and employees are expected to work for the company, gathering Grid Objects to donate to the Raw Material supply.]] {{ __Wealthy Bastard goes Public__ Create the following Rule: {{ __Wealthy Bastard Enterprises__ {*(WBE),1*} There exists a Society called Weathy Bastard Enterprises, or WBE. WBE has a Resource Pool of BNS. Any player may give BNS in eir possession to WBE by declaring that they do so in a public Forum. WBE has a number associated with it called its Raw Materials. There exist passable SO's called Wealthy Bastard Service Garages. A player who is on a Service Garage or in a square consecutive to a Service Garage may give Carryable Objects in eir possession to WBE. When this happens, the object is destroyed, and the Raw Materials increases by a certain amount. Only the following types of Grid Objects may be given to WBE, and they increase the Raw Materials by the amount following them: Beer Cans 10 Balls of Wax 10 Towels 10 Piles of Kindling 15 Big Sticks 20 Athames 20 Small Lumps 30 Sledge-O-Matics 40 Shields 50 Large Lumps 70 One member of WBE is said to be the Wealthy Bastard, or Boss. All other members may be refferred to as Employees. At the beginning of each nweek, 55 BNS is transferred from WBE to the Boss of WBE, and 11 BNS is transferred from WBE to each Employee of WBE. The Wealthy Bastard may change either of these two salaries by declaring so in a public forum. Non-employee players may join WBE if they request to join, and the Boss declares that they may join. The Boss may oust any employee from WBE at will. If at any time WBE has no Boss, the employee who has been an employee the longest becomes the Boss. The Ministry of WBE is a Ministry. The Ministry of WBE may only be held by the Boss of WBE. The Minister of WBE is responsible for keeping track of WBE's finances, salaries, and raw materials. }} Insert in rule 301 the following section, labeled E.5: {{ __WBE Research Outposts__ There exist passable SO's called WBE Research Outposts. Initially, there are WBE Research Outposts at (2,1), (7,10), (19,5), (18,18) and (8,14). [[I'm not sure what to do with these yet, but I'm working on it.]] }} Add to the list in the rule entitled 'Service Malls' the text: "1 Wealthy Bastard Service Garage" Make Wonko the Boss of WBE. }} -- Wonko From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:54:11 -0400 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:54:11 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: LOGAS {{ __Stop It!__ Now, "Being a pain in the ass", Is an act which is really quite crass. So to give pests a scare, Let us Kick some derriere, And put it onto the LOGAS! [[ It's an open ended thing - if you think someone's being stupid, you can Kick em for it, and if the admin agrees, they get kicked. The admin, therefore, acts as a safety net to stop unjust kicks from happening. Thus, submitting a billion CFI's can be put down as "Being a Pain in the Ass", instead of all this workaround stuff with Hoaxes and Hostility. ]] }} -- Wonko From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:54:40 -0400 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:54:40 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Speeder Upgrades {{ __Improving Speeders__ Create the following rule: {{ __Wealthy Bastard Speeder Upgrades__ {*(WBE,Speeder,Grid),2*} A. Definition Airspeeders may be Upgraded. Each Upgrade sold by WBE has a price, has a resource cost, is either Reversable or Non-Reversable, is either Integrated or External, and has a Size. All upgrades are Non-Reversable, Integrated, and have a Size of 0, unless the rules specify otherwise. A.1 Purchasing Any player may upgrade an Airspeeder in eir possession provided that e has BNS equal to or exceeding the price of that upgrade, WBE's Raw Materials is greater than or equal to the resource cost of that upgrade, the Airspeeder's remaining Upgrade Space exceeds or equals the Size of the upgrade, and the airspeeder being upgrade does not already have that upgrade. When a player upgrades an Airspeeder in this fashion, e pays the price of the upgrade in BNS to WBE, WBE's Raw Materials decreases by the resource cost of the upgrade, and the Airspeeder's Upgrade Space decreases by the Size of the Upgrade. A.2 Returns If a player has an Airspeeder that is Upgraded, and that upgrade is reversable, then e may Reverse the Upgrade. When a player reverses an Upgrade, BNS equal to 2/3 (rounded down) of the price of that upgrade is transferred from WBE to that player, unless this is more BNS than WBE has, in which case all of WBE's BNS is transferred instead. [[Note that this means you get no money if you return an upgrade when WBE is bankrupt]] Additionally, when an Upgrade is reversed, 9/10 of it's resource cost, rounded up, is added to the Raw Materials, and the Upgrade Space of the Airspeeder which had the Upgrade increases by the Size of the Upgrade. A.3 Destruction If a single event causes a Speeder which has External Upgrades to lose more than 20 points of integrity, 1d3 is rolled. On a 1, a randomly chosen External Upgrade of that Speeder is destroyed, and a Small Lump of Scrap Metal is created at the Speeder's location. B. Mobility Upgrades WBE sells the following upgrades related to Mobility: B.1 Thrust Upgrade Thrust Upgrades Price: 100 BNS Resource Cost: 10 A Speeder with a Thrust Upgrade may move one space more per nweek than it could otherwise. B.2 Vertical Boosters Vertical Boosters Price: 120 BNS Resource Cost: 30 The movements of a Speeder with Vertical Boosters are not affected by the relative depths of the squares it moves through. B.2.1 Vertical Coasters Vertical Coasters Price: 90 BNS Resource Cost: 20 A Speeder may not be equipped with Vertical Coasters unless it already has Vertical Boosters. A Speeder with Vertical Coasters may move onto a square which contains an Impassable object, provided that it then immediately moves again to a square which does not contain an Impassable Object. C. Utility Upgrades WBE sells the following Utility upgrades: C.1 Cargo Bays Cargo Bays Price: 70 BNS Resource Cost: 30 Size: 1 Reversable If a Speeder has a Cargo Bay, the owner of the speeder, if e is in the Speeder, may put Carryable Objects which e possesses in the Bay, or pick up Carryable Objects that are in the Bay. Objects in a speeders Cargo Bay move with the Speeder. No more than 4 objects may be put in a Cargo Bay. If an airspeeder is destroyed, all objects in its Cargo Bay are destroyed as well, except Gremlins, which go into Hiding instead. C.1.1 Expanded Cargo Bays Cargo Bays Price: 100 BNS Resource Cost: 40 Size: 2 Reversable A Speeder may not be equipped with an Expanded Cargo Bay unless it already has a Cargo Bay. When a Speeder is equipped with an Expanded Cargo Bay, its Cargo Bay is destroyed. Expanded Cargo Bays are Cargo Bays, except that they may hold up to 10 Grid Objects. C.2 Tractor Beams Tractor Beams Price: 80 BNS Resource Cost: 50 Size: .5 External Reversable If a player occupies a Speeder which e owns and which has a Tractor Beam attached to it, e may use the Tractor Beam to move any Carryable Object within 1 unit of the Speeder into the Speeder's Cargo Bay, if the Speeder has one. A Tractor Beam may not be used more than three times per nweek. C.3 Remote Controls Remote Controls Price: 120 BNS Resource Cost: 10 Reversable If a Speeder has a Remote Control, then its owner may cause it to move regardless of whether or not e occupies that Speeder. C.3.1 Remote Pilots Remote Pilots Price: 220 BNS Resource Cost: 90 Size: 2 Reversable A Speeder may not be equipped with an Remote Pilot unless it already has a Remote Control. While a Speeder is equipped with a Remote Pilot, the upgrade Remote Control which it has may not be reversed. If a Speeder has a Remote Pilot, then its owner may cause that Speeder to do any of the following regardless of whether or not e occupies that Speeder: Move Use a Tractor Beam Fire a Weapon Drop an object that is in its Cargo Bay D. Weapons WBE sells the following Weapons-related upgrades: D.1 Laser Guns Laser Guns Price: 110 BNS Resource Cost: 50 Size: .5 Reversable External If a player occupies a Speeder which e owns and which has a Laser Gun attached to it, e may use the Laser Gun to Shoot at any other Airspeeder within 3 units of the firing Speeder's location. When this happens, that Airspeeder's Integrity decreases by 4d3. A Laser Gun may not be fired more than once per nweek. A Speeder may be equipped with up to five laser guns. }} }} -- Wonko From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:57:23 -0400 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:57:23 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Tangoing {{ __It's Tango Time!__ Amend section E.2.2 of rule 301 to be: {{ E.2.2 ZOE's and ZATR's Players in any Grid square immediately adjoining a Siren's Zone of Enchantment (either horizontally, vertically, or diagonally) are in the Siren's Zone of Almost-Total Rapture (ZATR). Players in any Grid square immediately adjoining a Siren (either horizontally, vertically, or diagonally) are in the Siren's Zone of Enchantment (ZOE). If it is not the Tango Season, Players in a Siren's ZOE may only move to other Grid Squares in that Siren's ZOE, and Players in a Siren's ZATR may only move to Grid squares in that Siren's ZATR or Grid squares in that Siren's ZOE. During the Tango Season, Players in a Siren's ZOE or ZATR has the option of Tangoing in any direction instead of taking a Move than nweek. When a player Tangoes in a direction, e takes two Moves in that direction. }} Amend section B of rule 405 to be: {{ B. Seasons B.1. Winter The first two nweeks of each nyear are Winter. Whenever the Weather is updated during Winter, (the 15th Gremlin Number minus 10) is added to the Temperature. B.2. Spring The third and fourth nweeks of each nyear are Spring. Whenever the Weather is updated during Spring, (the 15th Gremlin Number) is added to the Temperature. B.3. Summer The fifth and sixth nweeks of each nyear are Summer. Whenever the Weather is updated during Summer, (the 15th Gremlin Number plus 4) is added to the Temperature. B.4. Autumn The seventh and eighth nweeks of each nyear are Autumn. Whenever the Weather is updated during Autumn, (the 15th Gremlin Number minus 7) is added to the Temperature. B.5 The Tango Season The ninth and tenth nweeks of each nyear are the Tango Season. Whenever the Weather is updated during the Tango Season, 1d20 is added to the temperature. }} }} -- Wonko From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Mon, 16 Sep 2002 21:54:20 -0400 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 21:54:20 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Speeder Upgrades On Monday 16 September 2002 06:54 pm, Wonko wrote: > Tractor Beams What, no transporters? --=20 bd If anything can go wrong, it will. From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Mon, 16 Sep 2002 21:55:19 -0400 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 21:55:19 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Tangoing On Monday 16 September 2002 06:57 pm, Wonko wrote: > Whenever the > Weather is updated during the Tango Season, 1d20 is added to the > temperature. What's the reasoning behind this? No, nevermind. I don't want to know. --=20 bd For certain people, after fifty, litigation takes the place of sex. =09=09-- Gore Vidal From glotmorf@earthlink.net Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:12:47 -0400 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:12:47 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] CFI -- Prop 958 On 9/16/02 at 5:42 PM Wonko wrote: >Quoth Glotmorf, > >> [[ I hate to do this, but this is how the rules are built right now. I >hate >> to say I told you so...hey, who am I kidding? ]] >> >> I make the following CFI: >> >> Statement: >> >> Voting in favor of Proposal 958 is in violation of Rules 897 and 636; >> therefore, affirmative votes for Proposal 958 cannot be counted. >> >> Analysis: >> >> Shillings are objects. Wonko's shillings are in Wonko's possession. >Rule 897 >> says "B Nomic Shillings may only be manipulated as specified in the >rules." >> Rule 636 says "no player may modify the state of any object in >possession of >> another player, without the other player's explicit permission in a >public >> forum." Wonko did not give permission in a public forum for eir >shillings to >> be modified. Therefore, it is illegal for any player to vote in favor >of a >> proposal that modifies Wonko's shillings, e.g. by transferring them to >the >> Bank. > >I disagree with this interpretation, but just in case, I give all BNS I >possess in excess of 500 to the Bank. Well...okay, but I'm not rescinding the CFI. If the proposal shouldn't= have been voted for, it shouldn't be profited from. Glotmorf From dave@technopagan.org Tue, 17 Sep 2002 03:16:00 +0000 (GMT) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 03:16:00 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Clock is (still) Off The three days for Entropy have gone by; now the Clock is Off whilst I finish vote processing. I have observed (at least) two things during this process: 1. Working twelve-hour days really cuts into your vote-processing time 2. I miss my broadband connection Have a nice day. ...dave -- David E. Smith http://www.technopagan.org/ http://metadave.net/ "You know I don't approve of violence ... but these ARE deadly robots!" From squire_of_dimness@sbcglobal.net Tue, 17 Sep 2002 01:06:49 -0500 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 01:06:49 -0500 From: Joshua Caudle squire_of_dimness@sbcglobal.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Ultimate Democracy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glotmorf" To: Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 9:00 AM Subject: [Bnomic-private] Ultimate Democracy {{ _Nomvivor_ There exists a player attribute called The Island. The Island can have one of two states for a given player: "On" or "Off"; a player is thus thought of as "On the Island" or "Off the Island", respectively. All players are initially "Off the Island". If a player is "On the Island" but goes on leave, e becomes "Off the Island". At the beginning of the nweek after this rule is implemented, all players not on leave become On the Island. During each proposal voting period in which more than one player is On the Island, each player On the Island can submit a vote to the Administrator, either by email or public forum, naming another player who is On the Island. A player cannot name emself in the vote. At the end of the voting period, naming votes are counted by the Administrator. If a player On the Island didn't cast a vote before the end of the voting period, a vote is cast for em, randomly naming a player On the Island other than emself. The player On the Island who was named most out of all players On the Island becomes Off the Island. In case of a tie, votes are generated that randomly name players On the Island until there is no tie. If, after votes are counted, there still remain multiple players On the Island, the vote of the player who most recently became Off the Island is counted during the following voting period. If, after a voting period, there is only one player On the Island, the following events occur: - the player becomes Off the Island - the player receives the title, "Nweek ### Nomvivor", where ### is the number of the nweek - the player receives (850 mod (<# of nweek> * 10)) points - at the beginning of the first nweek following in which there are three or more players not on leave, all players become On the Island }} It's so evil and twisted I can't help but like it.... -Squire From naath_sedai@yahoo.co.uk Tue, 17 Sep 2002 12:28:05 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 12:28:05 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Naath=20Thabana?= naath_sedai@yahoo.co.uk Subject: [Bnomic-private] Ultimate Democracy --- Glotmorf wrote: > {{ _This Island Ain't Big Enough for Both of Us_ Reminds me of Battle Royal. That was one *scary* movie Naath ===== Like duct tape the force is, a light side and a dark side it has, holds the universe together it does, hmm. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From glotmorf@earthlink.net Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:27:22 -0400 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:27:22 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Jail On 9/16/02 at 6:45 PM Wonko wrote: >[[ Note: The proposal below, in my opinion, could have a pretty good >nomilogue to go with it. But I don't have time to write one. So if anyone >else can suggest a good one, I'll amend this proposal to include it, and >give say, all but one point of the proceeds to the author. Any takers?]] > > >I submit the following proposal: > >{{ >__Crime Doesn't Pay__ > >Create the following rules: > >{{ >__Criminal Behavior__ {*(Criminal),2*} > >Players may have the Attribute 'Wanted'. This attribute may be gained or >lost only as specified by the rules. > >A player immediately becomes Wanted when any of the following occurs: >*That player is kicked in the Ass four or more times within the same nweek >*A Bomb Gnome which that Player has Thrown Explodes on an Elbonian Airways >location >*A Bomb Gnome which that Player has Thrown Explodes at the location of a >Cop's Speeder. > >}} > >{{ >__Jail__ {*(Grid,Points,Criminal),4*} > >There exist 6 Grid Squares called Cells. The group of all Cells may be >collectively reffered to as Jail. > >The 6 Cells have the following coordinates, respectively: >(1,-5) >(4,-5) >(7,-5) >(10,-5) >(13,-5) >(16,-5) > >All Cells always are of substance Earth. > >Players who are in Jail may not: >*Move from one Grid Square to another >*Spend BNS, unless a rule forces em to >*Catch Thrown Objects >*Throw Objects >*Give Kicks in the Ass >*Gain points if e has already gained 20 or more points that nweek. > >If a player would gain BNS while in jail, the BNS they would gain is put= in >eir Bail Fund instead. > >If a player has been in jail for an nweek, e may then pay 300 BNS to be >released from jail. Any BNS in eir Bail Fund is automatically put towards >this cost. When a player is released from jail, e is put on a random >Service >Mall location, and any BNS left in eir Bail Fund is transferred to eir >possession. > >}} > >{{ >__The Police__ {*(Gremlin,Grid,Criminal,Speeder),2*} > >There exist three Gremlins called the Police Gremlins. They may >individually >be reffered to as the First Police Gremlin, the Second Police Gremlin, and >the Third Police Gremlin, or Cops # 1, 2, and 3. [[If anyone comes up with >more creative names, let me know]] If at any time one of the Cops becomes >Active, it is immediately given an Airspeeder and placed on a randomly >selected Service Mall. At the beginning of each nweek, all Cops that are >Hiding become Active. Whenever a Cop's Airspeeder is destroyed, the Cop in >question goes into Hiding. > >Each Cop is said to be able to see all squares within five units of eir >location, and all Grid Objects (including players) who are on those >squares. > >At the end of each nweek, all Cops who are Active move eir Airspeeders as >many times as they can, moving each time in the legal direction which= would >bring em closer to the Wanted player who is nearest to em and who can be >seen by a Cop. [[If any of them can see you, they all chase you]] If >multiple wanted players can be seen by a Cop, and they are all equidistant >from a Cop who needs to move, the moving Cop will choose one at random to >move towards. > >If a Cop occupies a square that is also occupied by a Wanted player, that >player is Apprehended, loses the attribute Wanted, and is put in a random >empty Jail Cell. >}} >}} Couple things... First, while I admit that the offenses you listed are things resulting from= a player's actions, and therefore a player becoming wanted is eir own= fault, I still don't like there being a limit on points one can earn. If= that's going to be in there, perhaps it should be qualified to not include= points from proposals. Second, your jail cell grid locations violate r301, which says the grid= runs from 1-20 on each side, unless those negatives in your grid locations= were an accident. I understand your logic -- you're trying to make grid= locations that can't be moved to or from -- but perhaps something that is= unarguably not on the grid would be better, like confining them to Limbo,= or creating a second Limbo called Jail, or a player attribute of Jail with= possible values In and Not In. Besides, what happens if we're all naughty and there's a shortage of empty= cells? Glotmorf From glotmorf@earthlink.net Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:27:28 -0400 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:27:28 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Tangoing On 9/16/02 at 6:57 PM Wonko wrote: >{{ >__It's Tango Time!__ > >Amend section E.2.2 of rule 301 to be: >{{ >E.2.2 ZOE's and ZATR's >Players in any Grid square immediately adjoining a Siren's Zone of >Enchantment (either horizontally, vertically, or diagonally) are in the >Siren's Zone of Almost-Total Rapture (ZATR). > >Players in any Grid square immediately adjoining a Siren (either >horizontally, vertically, or diagonally) are in the Siren's Zone of >Enchantment (ZOE). > >If it is not the Tango Season, Players in a Siren's ZOE may only move to >other Grid Squares in that Siren's ZOE, and Players in a Siren's ZATR may >only move to Grid squares in that Siren's ZATR or Grid squares in that >Siren's ZOE. > >During the Tango Season, Players in a Siren's ZOE or ZATR has the option= of >Tangoing in any direction instead of taking a Move than nweek. When a >player >Tangoes in a direction, e takes two Moves in that direction. >}} > >Amend section B of rule 405 to be: >{{ >B. Seasons >B.1. Winter >The first two nweeks of each nyear are Winter. Whenever the Weather is >updated during Winter, (the 15th Gremlin Number minus 10) is added to the >Temperature. >B.2. Spring >The third and fourth nweeks of each nyear are Spring. Whenever the Weather >is updated during Spring, (the 15th Gremlin Number) is added to the >Temperature. >B.3. Summer >The fifth and sixth nweeks of each nyear are Summer. Whenever the Weather >is >updated during Summer, (the 15th Gremlin Number plus 4) is added to the >Temperature. >B.4. Autumn >The seventh and eighth nweeks of each nyear are Autumn. Whenever the >Weather >is updated during Autumn, (the 15th Gremlin Number minus 7) is added to= the >Temperature. >B.5 The Tango Season >The ninth and tenth nweeks of each nyear are the Tango Season. Whenever= the >Weather is updated during the Tango Season, 1d20 is added to the >temperature. >}} >}} So...this is a Get Away from Siren Free card? Available on a nannual= basis? Glotmorf From glotmorf@earthlink.net Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:27:27 -0400 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:27:27 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: LOGAS On 9/16/02 at 6:54 PM Wonko wrote: >{{ >__Stop It!__ > >Now, "Being a pain in the ass", >Is an act which is really quite crass. >So to give pests a scare, >Let us Kick some derriere, >And put it onto the LOGAS! > >[[ It's an open ended thing - if you think someone's being stupid, you can >Kick em for it, and if the admin agrees, they get kicked. The admin, >therefore, acts as a safety net to stop unjust kicks from happening. Thus, >submitting a billion CFI's can be put down as "Being a Pain in the Ass", >instead of all this workaround stuff with Hoaxes and Hostility. ]] >}} Aren't we all pains in the ass to each other anyway? Okay, everyone form a circle...now turn to your left... Glotmorf From glotmorf@earthlink.net Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:27:24 -0400 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:27:24 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: WBE On 9/16/02 at 6:53 PM Wonko wrote: >[[ It's like vSOI, except spiffier. Wow, I should make that the company >motto. It's another company which will produce things, except with some of >the realism which Orc was complaining was absent from vSOI - it has a >limited supply of resources, and employees are expected to work for the >company, gathering Grid Objects to donate to the Raw Material supply.]] > > >{{ >__Wealthy Bastard goes Public__ > >Create the following Rule: >{{ >__Wealthy Bastard Enterprises__ {*(WBE),1*} >There exists a Society called Weathy Bastard Enterprises, or WBE. > >WBE has a Resource Pool of BNS. > >Any player may give BNS in eir possession to WBE by declaring that they do >so in a public Forum. > >WBE has a number associated with it called its Raw Materials. > >There exist passable SO's called Wealthy Bastard Service Garages. >A player who is on a Service Garage or in a square consecutive to a= Service >Garage may give Carryable Objects in eir possession to WBE. When this >happens, the object is destroyed, and the Raw Materials increases by a >certain amount. > >Only the following types of Grid Objects may be given to WBE, and they >increase the Raw Materials by the amount following them: >Beer Cans 10 >Balls of Wax 10 >Towels 10 >Piles of Kindling 15 >Big Sticks 20 >Athames 20 >Small Lumps 30 >Sledge-O-Matics 40 >Shields 50 >Large Lumps 70 > >One member of WBE is said to be the Wealthy Bastard, or Boss. All other >members may be refferred to as Employees. At the beginning of each nweek, >55 >BNS is transferred from WBE to the Boss of WBE, and 11 BNS is transferred >from WBE to each Employee of WBE. The Wealthy Bastard may change either of >these two salaries by declaring so in a public forum. > >Non-employee players may join WBE if they request to join, and the Boss >declares that they may join. > >The Boss may oust any employee from WBE at will. > >If at any time WBE has no Boss, the employee who has been an employee the >longest becomes the Boss. > >The Ministry of WBE is a Ministry. The Ministry of WBE may only be held by >the Boss of WBE. The Minister of WBE is responsible for keeping track of >WBE's finances, salaries, and raw materials. > >}} > >Insert in rule 301 the following section, labeled E.5: >{{ >__WBE Research Outposts__ > >There exist passable SO's called WBE Research Outposts. Initially, there >are >WBE Research Outposts at (2,1), (7,10), (19,5), (18,18) and (8,14). >[[I'm not sure what to do with these yet, but I'm working on it.]] >}} > >Add to the list in the rule entitled 'Service Malls' the text: >"1 Wealthy Bastard Service Garage" > >Make Wonko the Boss of WBE. >}} I'd like to see this fleshed out more first. Otherwise it's a do-nothing,= except that it gives Wonko a society and a second Ministry. (Which is= against the rules at the moment anyway, isn't it?) Glotmorf From glotmorf@earthlink.net Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:27:33 -0400 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:27:33 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Tangoing On 9/16/02 at 9:55 PM bd wrote: >On Monday 16 September 2002 06:57 pm, Wonko wrote: >> Whenever the >> Weather is updated during the Tango Season, 1d20 is added to the >> temperature. > >What's the reasoning behind this? No, nevermind. I don't want to know. Can't you feel the heat of the passion rising off the dance floor? :) Glotmorf From glotmorf@earthlink.net Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:30:02 -0400 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:30:02 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Speeder Integration On 9/16/02 at 5:41 PM Wonko wrote: >There exist Passable MOs called Airspeeders, or simply Speeders. > >Each Speeder has four attributes: >Upgrade Space, which is initially 10 >Max Integrity, which is initially 100 >Integrity, which is initially Max Integrity >Speed, which is initially 5. Ah. Missed this before. So the Upgrade proposal is dependent on this= proposal. Glotmorf From glotmorf@earthlink.net Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:27:29 -0400 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:27:29 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Speeder Upgrades On 9/16/02 at 6:54 PM Wonko wrote: >{{ >__Improving Speeders__ > >Create the following rule: >{{ >__Wealthy Bastard Speeder Upgrades__ {*(WBE,Speeder,Grid),2*} > >A. Definition > >Airspeeders may be Upgraded. >Each Upgrade sold by WBE has a price, has a resource cost, is either >Reversable or Non-Reversable, is either Integrated or External, and has a >Size. All upgrades are Non-Reversable, Integrated, and have a Size of 0, >unless the rules specify otherwise. > >A.1 Purchasing > >Any player may upgrade an Airspeeder in eir possession provided that e has >BNS equal to or exceeding the price of that upgrade, WBE's Raw Materials= is >greater than or equal to the resource cost of that upgrade, the >Airspeeder's >remaining Upgrade Space exceeds or equals the Size of the upgrade, and the >airspeeder being upgrade does not already have that upgrade. When a player >upgrades an Airspeeder in this fashion, e pays the price of the upgrade in >BNS to WBE, WBE's Raw Materials decreases by the resource cost of the >upgrade, and the Airspeeder's Upgrade Space decreases by the Size of the >Upgrade. > >A.2 Returns > >If a player has an Airspeeder that is Upgraded, and that upgrade is >reversable, then e may Reverse the Upgrade. When a player reverses an >Upgrade, BNS equal to 2/3 (rounded down) of the price of that upgrade is >transferred from WBE to that player, unless this is more BNS than WBE has, >in which case all of WBE's BNS is transferred instead. [[Note that this >means you get no money if you return an upgrade when WBE is bankrupt]] >Additionally, when an Upgrade is reversed, 9/10 of it's resource cost, >rounded up, is added to the Raw Materials, and the Upgrade Space of the >Airspeeder which had the Upgrade increases by the Size of the Upgrade. This should involve a warranty period, during which funds are= frozen/escrowed/held in reserve; otherwise, since shillings are= automatically disbursed, the chances of there being any money back from= returns is slim to none. >A.3 Destruction > >If a single event causes a Speeder which has External Upgrades to lose= more >than 20 points of integrity, 1d3 is rolled. On a 1, a randomly chosen >External Upgrade of that Speeder is destroyed, and a Small Lump of Scrap >Metal is created at the Speeder's location. > >B. Mobility Upgrades > >WBE sells the following upgrades related to Mobility: > >B.1 Thrust Upgrade > >Thrust Upgrades >Price: 100 BNS >Resource Cost: 10 > >A Speeder with a Thrust Upgrade may move one space more per nweek than it >could otherwise. Watch the wording. Some might argue the above allows infinite movement,= since, after it's moved its extra space, it "may move one space more than= it could otherwise." >B.2 Vertical Boosters > >Vertical Boosters >Price: 120 BNS >Resource Cost: 30 > >The movements of a Speeder with Vertical Boosters are not affected by the >relative depths of the squares it moves through. What about heights? What if a speeder starts out in a square with deep= depth? Does it plow into the side of a high-depth square? >B.2.1 Vertical Coasters > >Vertical Coasters >Price: 90 BNS >Resource Cost: 20 > >A Speeder may not be equipped with Vertical Coasters unless it already has >Vertical Boosters. >A Speeder with Vertical Coasters may move onto a square which contains an >Impassable object, provided that it then immediately moves again to a >square >which does not contain an Impassable Object. > >C. Utility Upgrades > >WBE sells the following Utility upgrades: > >C.1 Cargo Bays > >Cargo Bays >Price: 70 BNS >Resource Cost: 30 >Size: 1 >Reversable > >If a Speeder has a Cargo Bay, the owner of the speeder, if e is in the >Speeder, may put Carryable Objects which e possesses in the Bay, or pick= up >Carryable Objects that are in the Bay. Objects in a speeders Cargo Bay= move >with the Speeder. No more than 4 objects may be put in a Cargo Bay. >If an airspeeder is destroyed, all objects in its Cargo Bay are destroyed >as >well, except Gremlins, which go into Hiding instead. > >C.1.1 Expanded Cargo Bays > >Cargo Bays >Price: 100 BNS >Resource Cost: 40 >Size: 2 >Reversable > >A Speeder may not be equipped with an Expanded Cargo Bay unless it already >has a Cargo Bay. When a Speeder is equipped with an Expanded Cargo Bay,= its >Cargo Bay is destroyed. Expanded Cargo Bays are Cargo Bays, except that >they >may hold up to 10 Grid Objects. > >C.2 Tractor Beams > >Tractor Beams >Price: 80 BNS >Resource Cost: 50 >Size: .5 >External >Reversable > >If a player occupies a Speeder which e owns and which has a Tractor Beam >attached to it, e may use the Tractor Beam to move any Carryable Object >within 1 unit of the Speeder into the Speeder's Cargo Bay, if the Speeder >has one. A Tractor Beam may not be used more than three times per nweek. I'd say this should only affect carryable objects in grid locations not= already being carried by another game entity. Les'n you figure this could= be used to pick players' pockets, or boost things out of other speeders'= cargo bays. >C.3 Remote Controls > >Remote Controls >Price: 120 BNS >Resource Cost: 10 >Reversable > >If a Speeder has a Remote Control, then its owner may cause it to move >regardless of whether or not e occupies that Speeder. > >C.3.1 Remote Pilots > >Remote Pilots >Price: 220 BNS >Resource Cost: 90 >Size: 2 >Reversable > >A Speeder may not be equipped with an Remote Pilot unless it already has a >Remote Control. While a Speeder is equipped with a Remote Pilot, the >upgrade >Remote Control which it has may not be reversed. > >If a Speeder has a Remote Pilot, then its owner may cause that Speeder to >do >any of the following regardless of whether or not e occupies that Speeder: >Move >Use a Tractor Beam >Fire a Weapon >Drop an object that is in its Cargo Bay Drop an object...like a bomb gnome? Wonko, are you trying to invent MIRVs? >D. Weapons > >WBE sells the following Weapons-related upgrades: > >D.1 Laser Guns > >Laser Guns >Price: 110 BNS >Resource Cost: 50 >Size: .5 >Reversable >External > >If a player occupies a Speeder which e owns and which has a Laser Gun >attached to it, e may use the Laser Gun to Shoot at any other Airspeeder >within 3 units of the firing Speeder's location. When this happens, that >Airspeeder's Integrity decreases by 4d3. A Laser Gun may not be fired more >than once per nweek. A Speeder may be equipped with up to five laser guns. >}} > >}} You didn't define speeders' upgrade space. Does that mean speeders can't= be upgraded yet? Glotmorf From bdonlan@maine.rr.com Tue, 17 Sep 2002 15:36:40 -0400 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 15:36:40 -0400 From: bd bdonlan@maine.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Tangoing On Tuesday 17 September 2002 08:27 am, Glotmorf wrote: > On 9/16/02 at 9:55 PM bd wrote: > >On Monday 16 September 2002 06:57 pm, Wonko wrote: > >> Whenever the > >> Weather is updated during the Tango Season, 1d20 is added to the > >> temperature. > > > >What's the reasoning behind this? No, nevermind. I don't want to know. > > Can't you feel the heat of the passion rising off the dance floor? :) I don't want to know!!! --=20 bd I attribute my success to intelligence, guts, determination, honesty, ambition, and having enough money to buy people with those qualities. From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Tue, 17 Sep 2002 20:01:38 -0400 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 20:01:38 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Speeder Upgrades Quoth Glotmorf, > On 9/16/02 at 6:54 PM Wonko wrote: > >> {{ >> __Improving Speeders__ >> >> Create the following rule: >> {{ >> __Wealthy Bastard Speeder Upgrades__ {*(WBE,Speeder,Grid),2*} >> >> A. Definition >> >> Airspeeders may be Upgraded. >> Each Upgrade sold by WBE has a price, has a resource cost, is either >> Reversable or Non-Reversable, is either Integrated or External, and has a >> Size. All upgrades are Non-Reversable, Integrated, and have a Size of 0, >> unless the rules specify otherwise. >> >> A.1 Purchasing >> >> Any player may upgrade an Airspeeder in eir possession provided that e has >> BNS equal to or exceeding the price of that upgrade, WBE's Raw Materials is >> greater than or equal to the resource cost of that upgrade, the >> Airspeeder's >> remaining Upgrade Space exceeds or equals the Size of the upgrade, and the >> airspeeder being upgrade does not already have that upgrade. When a player >> upgrades an Airspeeder in this fashion, e pays the price of the upgrade in >> BNS to WBE, WBE's Raw Materials decreases by the resource cost of the >> upgrade, and the Airspeeder's Upgrade Space decreases by the Size of the >> Upgrade. >> >> A.2 Returns >> >> If a player has an Airspeeder that is Upgraded, and that upgrade is >> reversable, then e may Reverse the Upgrade. When a player reverses an >> Upgrade, BNS equal to 2/3 (rounded down) of the price of that upgrade is >> transferred from WBE to that player, unless this is more BNS than WBE has, >> in which case all of WBE's BNS is transferred instead. [[Note that this >> means you get no money if you return an upgrade when WBE is bankrupt]] >> Additionally, when an Upgrade is reversed, 9/10 of it's resource cost, >> rounded up, is added to the Raw Materials, and the Upgrade Space of the >> Airspeeder which had the Upgrade increases by the Size of the Upgrade. > > This should involve a warranty period, during which funds are > frozen/escrowed/held in reserve; otherwise, since shillings are automatically > disbursed, the chances of there being any money back from returns is slim to > none. Wording suggestions? >> >> WBE sells the following upgrades related to Mobility: >> >> B.1 Thrust Upgrade >> >> Thrust Upgrades >> Price: 100 BNS >> Resource Cost: 10 >> >> A Speeder with a Thrust Upgrade may move one space more per nweek than it >> could otherwise. > > Watch the wording. Some might argue the above allows infinite movement, > since, after it's moved its extra space, it "may move one space more than it > could otherwise." Hmmm.... >> B.2 Vertical Boosters >> >> Vertical Boosters >> Price: 120 BNS >> Resource Cost: 30 >> >> The movements of a Speeder with Vertical Boosters are not affected by the >> relative depths of the squares it moves through. > > What about heights? What if a speeder starts out in a square with deep depth? > Does it plow into the side of a high-depth square? Squares don't have 'height', just 'depth'. Right now, there's a restriction on moving to a square who's depth is 4 or more less than your current location's depth. With Boosters, you're able to boost up to the top of such squares, ignoring the depth consideration. It may be better to increase the price of this... If we ever start doing anything with Depth, this'll be a very good upgrade. >> C.2 Tractor Beams >> >> Tractor Beams >> Price: 80 BNS >> Resource Cost: 50 >> Size: .5 >> External >> Reversable >> >> If a player occupies a Speeder which e owns and which has a Tractor Beam >> attached to it, e may use the Tractor Beam to move any Carryable Object >> within 1 unit of the Speeder into the Speeder's Cargo Bay, if the Speeder >> has one. A Tractor Beam may not be used more than three times per nweek. > > I'd say this should only affect carryable objects in grid locations not > already being carried by another game entity. Les'n you figure this could be > used to pick players' pockets, or boost things out of other speeders' cargo > bays. I don't think held objects are considered to be "on the Grid"; they're "in player's possession". But I'll see if I can tighten up the wording a bit. >> C.3.1 Remote Pilots >> >> Remote Pilots >> Price: 220 BNS >> Resource Cost: 90 >> Size: 2 >> Reversable >> >> A Speeder may not be equipped with an Remote Pilot unless it already has a >> Remote Control. While a Speeder is equipped with a Remote Pilot, the >> upgrade >> Remote Control which it has may not be reversed. >> >> If a Speeder has a Remote Pilot, then its owner may cause that Speeder to >> do >> any of the following regardless of whether or not e occupies that Speeder: >> Move >> Use a Tractor Beam >> Fire a Weapon >> Drop an object that is in its Cargo Bay > > Drop an object...like a bomb gnome? Wonko, are you trying to invent MIRVs? I was thinking of just putting down objects, like when a player Drops an object, it gets put down. Though Bombing runs would be fun.... >> D. Weapons >> >> WBE sells the following Weapons-related upgrades: >> >> D.1 Laser Guns >> >> Laser Guns >> Price: 110 BNS >> Resource Cost: 50 >> Size: .5 >> Reversable >> External >> >> If a player occupies a Speeder which e owns and which has a Laser Gun >> attached to it, e may use the Laser Gun to Shoot at any other Airspeeder >> within 3 units of the firing Speeder's location. When this happens, that >> Airspeeder's Integrity decreases by 4d3. A Laser Gun may not be fired more >> than once per nweek. A Speeder may be equipped with up to five laser guns. >> }} >> >> }} > > You didn't define speeders' upgrade space. Does that mean speeders can't be > upgraded yet? Other things, like Integrity and the nickname Speeder for an Airspeeder, are also dependant on the other proposal; I figured it would be too ugly to try and build in lots of redundancy clauses to become independant. -- Wonko From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Tue, 17 Sep 2002 21:11:24 -0400 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 21:11:24 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Ultimate Democracy >He steeled himself and took another drink. "Still got a dimship?" > >"Terrorists took out the lab. Don't you read the papers? Oh, wait, I >forgot. You *made* the papers." -Woo! Interconnected plot line!- [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From glotmorf@earthlink.net Tue, 17 Sep 2002 23:48:19 -0400 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 23:48:19 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Member Societies {{ _Club B -- A Member of the Club A Family of Fine Clubs_ Add to Rule 578 the following @@@@-delimited text: @@@@ D.4. Member Societies A society can be a member of another society; the society that is a member= is a Member Society, while the society the Member Society is a member of= is a Parent Society. A society cannot, either directly or indirectly, be= a member of itself or a parent of itself -- neither a Member Society's= Parent Society, nor its Parent's Parent, ad infinitum, can be the Member= Society. D.4.1. Member Society Actions A Member Society is considered equivalent to a member player of a society,= for the purposes of joining or being ousted from membership, and= performing actions as a member of the society, if the Member Society's= public rules state the circumstances under which the Member Society= performs actions as a society member. Standard methods for performing Member Society Actions include: D.4.1.1. Open Member Society Acting In circumstances where an action is required or permitted by a member or= potential member of the Parent Society, a member of the Member Society may= post to a public forum eir statement of the action the Member Society is= performing. If a majority of members of the Member Society other than the= posting member deny in a public forum the action posted within a= three-nday period, the Member Society does not perform that action;= otherwise, the Member Society performs the posted action as a member of= the Parent Society. D.4.1.2. Closed Member Society Acting In circumstances where an action is required or permitted by a member or= potential member of the Parent Society, a member of the Member Society may= post to a public forum eir statement of the action the Member Society is= performing. If any member of the Member Society other than the posting= member denies in a public forum the action posted within a three-nday= period, the Member Society does not perform that action; otherwise, the= Member Society performs the posted action as a member of the Parent= Society. D.4.1.3. Unanimous Member Society Acting In circumstances where an action is required or permitted by a member or= potential member of the Parent Society, a member of the Member Society may= post to a public forum eir statement of the action the Member Society is= performing. If all members of the Member Society other than the posting= member agree in a public forum to the action posted within a three-nday= period, the Member Society performs the posted action as a member of the= Parent Society; otherwise, the Member Society does not perform the posted= action. D.4.2. Society Proposals If a Parent Society makes a Society Proposal, the benefits and burdens of= the proposal are shared with Member Societies as they would be with member= players. A Member Society is considered to be responsible for the= required portion of bandwidth for the proposal, and is considered to= receive dimensional and attribute adjustments as a member player would.= The bandwidth requrement and the dimensional and attribute adjustments= are passed on to the Member Society's members, as if the Member Society= had itself submitted a Society Proposal -- for example, if a Member= Society is one of three members of a Parent Society, it would be= responsible for 1/3 of the bandwidth for the Parent Society's proposals;= if the Member Society then had three members, each of them would be= responsible for 1/9 of the bandwidth. @@@@ }} From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Tue, 17 Sep 2002 23:46:43 -0400 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 23:46:43 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Member Societies Quoth Glotmorf, > {{ _Club B -- A Member of the Club A Family of Fine Clubs_ > > Add to Rule 578 the following @@@@-delimited text: > > @@@@ > D.4. Member Societies > > A society can be a member of another society; the society that is a member is > a Member Society, while the society the Member Society is a member of is a > Parent Society. A society cannot, either directly or indirectly, be a member > of itself or a parent of itself -- neither a Member Society's Parent Society, > nor its Parent's Parent, ad infinitum, can be the Member Society. > > D.4.1. Member Society Actions > > A Member Society is considered equivalent to a member player of a society, for > the purposes of joining or being ousted from membership, and performing > actions as a member of the society, if the Member Society's public rules state > the circumstances under which the Member Society performs actions as a society > member. > > Standard methods for performing Member Society Actions include: > > D.4.1.1. Open Member Society Acting > > In circumstances where an action is required or permitted by a member or > potential member of the Parent Society, a member of the Member Society may > post to a public forum eir statement of the action the Member Society is > performing. If a majority of members of the Member Society other than the > posting member deny in a public forum the action posted within a three-nday > period, the Member Society does not perform that action; otherwise, the Member > Society performs the posted action as a member of the Parent Society. > > D.4.1.2. Closed Member Society Acting > > In circumstances where an action is required or permitted by a member or > potential member of the Parent Society, a member of the Member Society may > post to a public forum eir statement of the action the Member Society is > performing. If any member of the Member Society other than the posting member > denies in a public forum the action posted within a three-nday period, the > Member Society does not perform that action; otherwise, the Member Society > performs the posted action as a member of the Parent Society. > > D.4.1.3. Unanimous Member Society Acting > > In circumstances where an action is required or permitted by a member or > potential member of the Parent Society, a member of the Member Society may > post to a public forum eir statement of the action the Member Society is > performing. If all members of the Member Society other than the posting > member agree in a public forum to the action posted within a three-nday > period, the Member Society performs the posted action as a member of the > Parent Society; otherwise, the Member Society does not perform the posted > action. > > D.4.2. Society Proposals > > If a Parent Society makes a Society Proposal, the benefits and burdens of the > proposal are shared with Member Societies as they would be with member > players. A Member Society is considered to be responsible for the required > portion of bandwidth for the proposal, and is considered to receive > dimensional and attribute adjustments as a member player would. The bandwidth > requrement and the dimensional and attribute adjustments are passed on to the > Member Society's members, as if the Member Society had itself submitted a > Society Proposal -- for example, if a Member Society is one of three members > of a Parent Society, it would be responsible for 1/3 of the bandwidth for the > Parent Society's proposals; if the Member Society then had three members, each > of them would be responsible for 1/9 of the bandwidth. > @@@@ > > }} Bandwidth isn't defined yet. -- Wonko From glotmorf@earthlink.net Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:11:16 -0400 Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:11:16 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Speeder Upgrades On 9/17/02 at 8:01 PM Wonko wrote: >Quoth Glotmorf, > >> On 9/16/02 at 6:54 PM Wonko wrote: >> >>> {{ >>> __Improving Speeders__ >>> >>> Create the following rule: >>> {{ >>> __Wealthy Bastard Speeder Upgrades__ {*(WBE,Speeder,Grid),2*} One thing in particular, before we get much further. I know it'll take a= substantial rewording, but...I'd like to see all these upgrades be things= in the rules in general, and not tied to a particular person or group.= Say, for example, that such-and-such an upgrade is available for= speeders, and would cost X resource units for a given entity to produce= and install. Then have a provision that any entity that has paid some= up-front capitalization cost (including a society that has written it into= its charter) and that has gotten the resource units from somewhere can= produce said upgrades. If you then want to try to make WBE be the only entity that can salvage= grid objects to produce resource units, that's a separate issue. Maybe= vSOI would somehow combine gnomes to produce resource units. Maybe M-Tek= Manufacturing (a division of M-Tek Industries) could get resource units= some other way, including buying them from some entity that has the means= to produce them. Is this realistic? In today's world of corporate espionage, trade secret= laws and reverse-engineering labs, I daresay it is. And since we've seen= what the Baron thinks of trade secret practices, I'd say some technologies= wouldn't stay secret for too long. >>> A.2 Returns >>> >>> If a player has an Airspeeder that is Upgraded, and that upgrade is >>> reversable, then e may Reverse the Upgrade. When a player reverses an >>> Upgrade, BNS equal to 2/3 (rounded down) of the price of that upgrade= is >>> transferred from WBE to that player, unless this is more BNS than WBE >has, >>> in which case all of WBE's BNS is transferred instead. [[Note that this >>> means you get no money if you return an upgrade when WBE is bankrupt]] >>> Additionally, when an Upgrade is reversed, 9/10 of it's resource cost, >>> rounded up, is added to the Raw Materials, and the Upgrade Space of the >>> Airspeeder which had the Upgrade increases by the Size of the Upgrade. >> >> This should involve a warranty period, during which funds are >> frozen/escrowed/held in reserve; otherwise, since shillings are >automatically >> disbursed, the chances of there being any money back from returns is >slim to >> none. > >Wording suggestions? Working on it. What would you, as a manufacturer of speeder upgrades,= consider a reasonable amount of time to have to wait for assets to be= unfrozen? >> What about heights? What if a speeder starts out in a square with deep >depth? >> Does it plow into the side of a high-depth square? > >Squares don't have 'height', just 'depth'. Right now, there's a= restriction >on moving to a square who's depth is 4 or more less than your current >location's depth. With Boosters, you're able to boost up to the top of= such >squares, ignoring the depth consideration. It may be better to increase= the >price of this... If we ever start doing anything with Depth, this'll be a >very good upgrade. Okay, let's say we were going to turn depth into a relative measurement,= like units above/below sea level. Where would you set sea level at this= time? At a square that has a depth of zero? Glotmorf From glotmorf@earthlink.net Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:17:11 -0400 Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:17:11 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Re: [Spoon-business] Proposal: From up here, you can see miles! On 9/17/02 at 10:48 PM Baron von Skippy wrote: >[[I see a whole big mega-story in all this... working together is good if >I >can profit from it. Oh, and I'm not sure who's a public forum, so I sent >this to both.]] > >{{ >__A New World to Explore... and Conquer__ > Baron...um... The story line is interesting, especially if we ever decide to include the= story portion of a proposal as gospel in a nomilogued RP environment. (I= wanna see someone do the ground rules for THAT one...) But the idea of the outer grid is...how can I put this= delicately...whacked? If you're going to do this at all, why have it adjacent to the grid, or= have anything to do with the grid? Why not have a secondary grid= altogether? Or, alternately, see what I have in mind, which is very= similar to what you've got here, but in a somewhat different direction. Glotmorf From glotmorf@earthlink.net Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:45:23 -0400 Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:45:23 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Developing the grid {{ _Just What IS Level Ground Anyway?_ In Rule 301: - Replace the text of subsection A.1 with the following: There exists an environment known as the Grid. The Grid is composed of= surface units, which in turn contain locations, also known as Squares.= The Grid is 20 surface units wide by 20 surface units long. The surface= units are numbered from 1 to 20 horizontally (the x axis) and 1 to 20= vertically (the y axis); squares in surface units use the x and y axis,= but also employ elevation (the z axis), expressed as units of elevation= above or below grid level (where z is equal to 0). Each surface unit on= the Grid can be expressed as an (x,y) coordinate location, with (1,1) in= the lower left-hand corner, and (20,20) in the upper right. Each square= on the grid can be expressed as an (x,y,z) coordinate location, with x and= y indicating the surface unit; if the z coordinate is not supplied for a= square, it is assumed to be the surface square. - Replace the first two paragraphs of subsection A.3 with the following: Each Grid Square has two attributes called Substance and Depth. Substance= describes the material of which the square is made. Depth denotes where= the square is in relation to the surface (unmodified topmost point) of a= surface unit; every surface unit contains a surface square -- a square= whose depth is zero. In Rule 948: - Replace the text "depth increases from less than 10 to greater than 10"= with "elevation decreases to -11 or lower". - Replace the text "depth decreases from greater than 10 to less than 10"= with "elevation increases to -9 or higher". In Rule 949: - Replace the word "depth" with the word "elevation". On the Grid: - Establish surface squares for every surface unit. Surface squares where= the former depth of the unit was 0 have elevation 0; surface squares where= the former depth of the unit was non-zero have elevation equal to the= negative of their former depth. }} [[ Yes, folks, I'm making the grid officially three-dimensional. ]] Glotmorf From glotmorf@earthlink.net Wed, 18 Sep 2002 04:22:02 -0400 Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 04:22:02 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: flats {{ _Your Flat or Mine?_ Add the following subsection to Rule 301: E.5. Flats There exist conditionally impassable stationary objects called Flats. A= Flat is a structure erected on an otherwise unoccupied surface square of= the Grid, or on top of another Flat. An entity can create a Flat at a given surface unit by specifying eir= desire to do so on the public forum. A Flat costs 35 points, and is= constructed at the end of the nweek in which it is purchased. Once the Flat has been constructed, it is considered a square for the= purposes of movement, except that its owner has sole discretion over who= is allowed to enter it. Its grid location is (x,y,z), where (x,y) is the= location of the surface square on which it, or the flats under it, are= built, and z is the elevation of the surface square plus the number of= flats under it. The unoccupied roof of the flat is considered to be a= square at location (x,y,z+1). If an entity is not permitted to enter the Flat, e is still able to= navigate the fire escape on the side of the flat to move to the square= above or below the Flat. Climbing the flat, either up or down, is= considered a move, but the Flat being climbed cannot be the square the= entity ends eir movement on unless e is permitted to enter the Flat. If= an entity in a square at the same level as a Flat wishes to get to the= roof of that Flat, e must move two squares: one to climb the Flat, and one= to enter the roof square. If more than one Flat is stacked at a given surface unit, the collection of= Flats is called a Building. The owner of a Flat may transfer ownership to any other entity e chooses;= neither the former owner nor the new owner need occupy the Flat in order= to perform the transfer. }} Glotmorf From glotmorf@earthlink.net Wed, 18 Sep 2002 11:45:25 -0400 Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 11:45:25 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: flats On 9/18/02 at 4:22 AM Glotmorf wrote: >{{ _Your Flat or Mine?_ > >Add the following subsection to Rule 301: > >E.5. Flats > >There exist conditionally impassable stationary objects called Flats. A >Flat is a structure erected on an otherwise unoccupied surface square of >the Grid, or on top of another Flat. > >An entity can create a Flat at a given surface unit by specifying eir >desire to do so on the public forum. A Flat costs 35 points, and is >constructed at the end of the nweek in which it is purchased. > >Once the Flat has been constructed, it is considered a square for the >purposes of movement, except that its owner has sole discretion over who >is allowed to enter it. Its grid location is (x,y,z), where (x,y) is the >location of the surface square on which it, or the flats under it, are >built, and z is the elevation of the surface square plus the number of >flats under it. The unoccupied roof of the flat is considered to be a >square at location (x,y,z+1). > >If an entity is not permitted to enter the Flat, e is still able to >navigate the fire escape on the side of the flat to move to the square >above or below the Flat. Climbing the flat, either up or down, is >considered a move, but the Flat being climbed cannot be the square the >entity ends eir movement on unless e is permitted to enter the Flat. If >an entity in a square at the same level as a Flat wishes to get to the >roof of that Flat, e must move two squares: one to climb the Flat, and one >to enter the roof square. > >If more than one Flat is stacked at a given surface unit, the collection >of Flats is called a Building. > >The owner of a Flat may transfer ownership to any other entity e chooses; >neither the former owner nor the new owner need occupy the Flat in order >to perform the transfer. > >}} Insert, after the fourth paragraph of the above proposal, the following= paragraph: If moving from a flat or the roof of a flat to the surface or roof of an= adjoining surface unit would be illegal because of the difference in= elevation, but it is possible to climb down the building to a point that= the move would not be illegal, the moving entity may do so, inasmuch as= the entity has sufficient movement available to both make the climb and= enter the adjoining surface unit. Glotmorf From dave@technopagan.org Wed, 18 Sep 2002 19:51:27 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 19:51:27 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] I know, the Clock is STILL off... I'm trying my damnedest to get caught up, but those proposals just keep coming in, faster than I can update the database. (Thanks, Wonko.) As soon as I get through 'em all, and there's only another 100 or so messages in my Nomic mail folder, I'll start handling votes. (The results are already counted, I just have to implement everything.) ...dave -- David E. Smith http://www.technopagan.org/ http://metadave.net/ "You know I don't approve of violence ... but these ARE deadly robots!" From dave@technopagan.org Thu, 19 Sep 2002 03:19:00 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 03:19:00 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] Nweek 22 Voting Results (v2.0) Proposal 943/0 (Precipitation) (The Voice): AFF: Athena, Baron von Skippy, bd, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko NEG: Glotmorf Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (7-1-0-0). Measure passes. Proposal 951/1 (Cleaning Up After Wonko's Cleanup) (M-Tek): AFF: Athena, Baron von Skippy, bd, Glotmorf, Iain, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (9-0-0-0). Measure passes. Proposal 952/0 (Nweek 22 Insta-Prop) (House Grem): AFF: Baron von Skippy, Glotmorf NEG: Athena, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko SHL: bd Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (2-5-0-1). Measure fails. Proposal 953/0 (Cleaning Up) (bd): AFF: bd, Glotmorf, The Voice NEG: Athena, Baron von Skippy, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (3-5-0-0). Measure fails. Proposal 954/0 (Insider trading is illegal) (bd): AFF: bd NEG: Athena, Baron von Skippy, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (1-7-0-0). Measure fails. Proposal 955/0 (Nseasons, v.2) (The Voice): AFF: Baron von Skippy NEG: Athena, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, Wonko SHL: bd, The Voice Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (1-5-0-2). Measure fails. Proposal 956/0 (He Had Killer Charm. Well... Winning Charm) (The Voice): AFF: Athena, Baron von Skippy, bd, The Voice, Wonko NEG: Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness ABS: Glotmorf Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (5-2-1-0). Measure passes. Proposal 957/0 (Less is More: The Ruleset) (bd): AFF: Athena, Squire of Dimness NEG: Baron von Skippy, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, The Voice, Wonko ABS: bd Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (2-5-1-0). Measure fails. Proposal 958/3 (Wealth Control) (Athena): AFF: bd, Mithrandir, Wonko NEG: Athena, Baron von Skippy, Glotmorf, Squire of Dimness, The Voice Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (3-5-0-0). Measure fails. Proposal 959/0 (A Little More: Ministries) (The Administrator): AFF: Baron von Skippy, bd, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko NEG: Athena Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (7-1-0-0). Measure passes. Proposal 960/0 (What the Hell is an Agent?) (Mithrandir): AFF: Baron von Skippy, bd, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice NEG: Athena, Glotmorf, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (5-3-0-0). Measure passes. Proposal 961/0 (Yesterday's News) (Mithrandir): AFF: Athena, Baron von Skippy, bd, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (8-0-0-0). Measure passes. Proposal 962/0 (Solving one of the Quest's Problems) (Mithrandir): AFF: Baron von Skippy, bd, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, Wonko NEG: Athena ABS: The Voice Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (6-1-1-0). Measure passes. Proposal 963/0 (Oh Yes, You'll Pay) (Mithrandir): AFF: Baron von Skippy, bd, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko NEG: Athena ABS: Glotmorf Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (6-1-1-0). Measure passes. Proposal 964/0 (There was Something Else... Oh Yeah, a Scapegoat!) (Mithrandir): AFF: Athena, Baron von Skippy, bd, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness NEG: Wonko ABS: The Voice Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (6-1-1-0). Measure passes. Proposal 965/0 (Night of the Living Dead Stock Market) (M-Tek): AFF: bd, Glotmorf, Iain, Squire of Dimness NEG: Athena, Baron von Skippy, Mithrandir, The Voice, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (4-5-0-0). Measure fails. Proposal 966/1 (Graves, Make That my New Motto) (Baron von Skippy): AFF: Athena, Baron von Skippy, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice NEG: Wonko ABS: bd Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (6-1-1-0). Measure passes. Proposal 967/1 (Healthy Competition, My Ass) (Baron von Skippy): AFF: Athena, Baron von Skippy, bd, Glotmorf, Mithrandir (13), Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (8-0-0-0). Measure passes. Proposal 968/1 (And now, the Dramatic Conclusion) (Baron von Skippy): AFF: Athena, Baron von Skippy, bd, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko NEG: Glotmorf Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (7-1-0-0). Measure passes. Proposal 969/4 (The Game is Afoot! I'll Take "Anal Bum Covers" for 7,000) (Baron von Skippy): AFF: Baron von Skippy, bd, Mithrandir NEG: Athena, Glotmorf, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (3-5-0-0). Measure fails. Proposal 970/0 (Eddie's in the Space-Time Continuum) (Baron von Skippy): AFF: Athena, Baron von Skippy, bd, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, The Voice, Wonko NEG: Squire of Dimness Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (7-1-0-0). Measure passes. Proposal 971/1 (untitled champagne proposal) (Squire of Dimness): AFF: Baron von Skippy, bd, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, Wonko NEG: Athena, The Voice Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (6-2-0-0). Measure passes. Proposal 972/0 (Marching through Wall Street) (Glotmorf): AFF: Baron von Skippy, bd, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness NEG: Athena, Wonko ABS: The Voice Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (5-2-1-0). Measure passes. Proposal 973/0 (Public Exposure) (Glotmorf): AFF: Baron von Skippy, bd, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness NEG: Athena, Wonko ABS: The Voice Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (5-2-1-0). Measure passes. Proposal 974/0 (Bad Dog!) (Orc In a Spacesuit): AFF: Athena, bd, The Voice NEG: Baron von Skippy, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (3-5-0-0). Measure fails. Proposal 975/0 (Towel Racks) (bd): AFF: Athena, Baron von Skippy, bd, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (8-0-0-0). Measure passes. Proposal 976/0 (These Titles Ought To Last) (Orc In a Spacesuit): AFF: Baron von Skippy, bd, Glotmorf NEG: Athena, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (3-5-0-0). Measure fails. Proposal 978/0 (Can't Touch This) (Orc In a Spacesuit): AFF: bd NEG: Athena, Baron von Skippy, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (1-7-0-0). Measure fails. Proposal 979/0 (This Wasn't In My Job Description...) (Glotmorf): AFF: Baron von Skippy, bd, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice NEG: Athena, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (6-2-0-0). Measure passes. Proposal 980/0 (A bit of Exorc.) (Wonko): AFF: Baron von Skippy, bd, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko NEG: Athena, Glotmorf Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (6-2-0-0). Measure passes. Proposal 981/0 (A bit more Exorc.) (Wonko): AFF: Baron von Skippy, bd, Mithrandir, The Voice, Wonko NEG: Athena, Glotmorf, Squire of Dimness Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (5-3-0-0). Measure passes. Proposal 982/0 (A little more) (Wonko): AFF: Baron von Skippy, bd, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko NEG: Athena, Glotmorf Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (6-2-0-0). Measure passes. Proposal 983/0 (And finally...) (Wonko): AFF: Athena, Baron von Skippy, bd, Mithrandir, The Voice, Wonko NEG: Glotmorf, Squire of Dimness Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (6-2-0-0). Measure passes. Proposal 984/0 (Fixing the Stock Market) (Wonko): AFF: Athena, Baron von Skippy, bd, Mithrandir, Wonko NEG: Glotmorf, Squire of Dimness ABS: The Voice Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (5-2-1-0). Measure passes. Proposal 985/0 (Ambassador Biweekly) (Athena): AFF: Athena, bd, Squire of Dimness, The Voice NEG: Baron von Skippy, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (4-4-0-0). Measure fails. Proposal 986/0 (The World is An Atheist's Temple) (Athena): AFF: Athena, Baron von Skippy, bd, The Voice, Wonko NEG: Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (5-3-0-0). Measure passes. Proposal 987/0 (Lord of the Stock Scam) (Athena): AFF: Athena, bd, Glotmorf, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko NEG: Baron von Skippy, Mithrandir Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (6-2-0-0). Measure passes. Proposal 989/0 (Mutations BAD! Krunk smash!) (bd): AFF: bd, Squire of Dimness NEG: Athena, Baron von Skippy, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, The Voice, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (2-6-0-0). Measure fails. Affirmative vote counts (BW Grem): The Voice: 13 votes M-Tek: 13 votes House Grem: 2 votes bd: 16 votes Athena: 18 votes The Administrator: 7 votes Mithrandir: 31 votes Baron von Skippy: 31 votes Squire of Dimness: 6 votes Glotmorf: 16 votes Orc In a Spacesuit: 7 votes Wonko: 28 votes Contrary vote counts (1pt per): Glotmorf: 13 votes Baron von Skippy: 5 votes The Voice: 4 votes bd: 10 votes Mithrandir: 5 votes Squire of Dimness: 10 votes Athena: 14 votes Wonko: 7 votes Iain: 1 votes Psychic vote counts (IOB): Mithrandir: 33 votes Wonko: 31 votes Squire of Dimness: 28 votes The Voice: 28 votes bd: 24 votes Athena: 24 votes Baron von Skippy: 33 votes Glotmorf: 23 votes Iain: 1 votes ...dave From dave@technopagan.org Thu, 19 Sep 2002 03:17:49 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 03:17:49 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Daily Recognizer (Wednesday Evening III) Updated vote results forthcoming. (This'll be the "abridged" version without point totals and so on.) The only issue for which the added votes changed the result was p986, "The World is an Atheist's Temple." Created 941/1. Athena scores 12 + 2 (points wrongly taken for "failure" of prop) = 14 pts. A few points change hands; I'll provide an itemized list if anyone positively insists, but they're mostly just one-points here and there (based on how you voted for p986, and if its change from 'fail' to 'pass' affected you). "A New World to Explore... and Conqure" is 1005/1. BvS receives 20 points for Ministerial services. The Voice receives 4 points for Ministerial services. BvS spends a whole lot of points and gets smashingly drunk. I'm going to assume e didn't botch the maths on that, because I don't have time to double-check everything just now. ...dave From dave@technopagan.org Thu, 19 Sep 2002 02:34:02 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 02:34:02 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Daily Recognizer (Wednesday Evening II) Anyone have a preference on how long we keep which mailing lists around? (I'm thinking that, after another day or two, I remove bnomic-private from the list of Public Fora.) Orc urinates on Joel's machine. It erupts in a shower of sparks. I overlooked a couple things related to The Grid and the nweekly updates: * The Gnome Factory cannot produce anything, as there are no other Gnomes presently on the Grid. * Just after that fails miserably, two Sheep Gnomes fall from above. The Voice Answers the Telephone of B Nomic, and scores 4 points. (Wonko's message was sent earlier, but wasn't sent to the -business list.) "Repeal Rule 408!" is 1012/0. "Less is More: Capital Resources" is 1013/0. "Repeal Rule 469!" is 1014/0. "DimShips are gone, I tell you!" is 1015/0. I cannot do the following BvS action: Replace all occurences of the words "Resource Units" in my proposal with "units of Raw Materials." Because I have NO IDEA which proposal e is referring to here. ...dave From dave@technopagan.org Wed, 18 Sep 2002 23:59:57 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 23:59:57 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] NWEEK 22 VOTING RESULTS Proposal 943/0 (Precipitation) (The Voice): AFF: bd, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko NEG: Glotmorf Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (5-1-0-0). Measure passes. Created 405/6. The Voice scores 14 points. Proposal 951/1 (Cleaning Up After Wonko's Cleanup) (M-Tek): AFF: bd, Glotmorf, Iain, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (7-0-0-0). Measure passes. Created 301/19. M-Tek scores 12 points. Proposal 952/0 (Nweek 22 Insta-Prop) (House Grem): AFF: Glotmorf NEG: Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko SHL: bd Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (1-4-0-1). Measure fails. (Not counted here: 3 votes from House Grem. It still fails.) House Grem loses 4 points. Proposal 953/0 (Cleaning Up) (bd): AFF: bd, Glotmorf, The Voice NEG: Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (3-3-0-0). Measure fails. bd loses 2 points. Proposal 954/0 (Insider trading is illegal) (bd): AFF: bd NEG: Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (1-5-0-0). Measure fails. bd loses 4 points. Proposal 955/0 (Nseasons, v.2) (The Voice): NEG: Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, Wonko SHL: bd, The Voice Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (0-4-0-2). Measure fails. The Voice loses 3 points. Proposal 956/0 (He Had Killer Charm. Well... Winning Charm) (The Voice): AFF: bd, The Voice, Wonko NEG: Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness ABS: Glotmorf Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (3-2-1-0). Measure passes. Created 154/9. The Voice scores 9 points. Proposal 957/0 (Less is More: The Ruleset) (bd): AFF: Squire of Dimness NEG: Glotmorf, Mithrandir, The Voice, Wonko ABS: bd Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (1-4-1-0). Measure fails. bd loses 6 points. Proposal 958/3 (Wealth Control) (Athena): AFF: bd, Mithrandir, Wonko NEG: Glotmorf, Squire of Dimness, The Voice Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (3-3-0-0). Measure fails. Athena loses 5 points. Proposal 959/0 (A Little More: Ministries) (The Administrator): AFF: bd, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (6-0-0-0). Measure passes. Created 625/5. Repealed 940. The Gremlin Fund scores 16 points. Proposal 960/0 (What the Hell is an Agent?) (Mithrandir): AFF: bd, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice NEG: Glotmorf, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (4-2-0-0). Measure passes. Created 17/4. Mithrandir scores 12 points. Proposal 961/0 (Yesterday's News) (Mithrandir): AFF: bd, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (6-0-0-0). Measure passes. Created 22/4. Mithrandir scores 7 points. Proposal 962/0 (Solving one of the Quest's Problems) (Mithrandir): AFF: bd, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, Wonko ABS: The Voice Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (5-0-1-0). Measure passes. Created 33/3. Mithrandir scores 15 points. Proposal 963/0 (Oh Yes, You'll Pay) (Mithrandir): AFF: bd, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko ABS: Glotmorf Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (5-0-1-0). Measure passes. Cannot do anything -- Rule 124 does not exist. Mithrandir scores 11 points. Proposal 964/0 (There was Something Else... Oh Yeah, a Scapegoat!) (Mithrandir): AFF: bd, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness NEG: Wonko ABS: The Voice Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (4-1-1-0). Measure passes. Created 126/7. Mithrandir scores 11 points. Proposal 965/0 (Night of the Living Dead Stock Market) (M-Tek): AFF: bd, Glotmorf, Iain, Squire of Dimness NEG: Mithrandir, The Voice, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (4-3-0-0). Measure passes. Measure is vetoed by The Administrator (technically infeasible to implement. There were other, legal BNS transactions, and I simply CANNOT sort out which is which, especially in light of the fact that this nweek lasted almost a month of RL time). M-Tek scores 9 points. Proposal 966/1 (Graves, Make That my New Motto) (Baron von Skippy): AFF: Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice NEG: Wonko ABS: bd Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (4-1-1-0). Measure passes. Created 1/1. Baron von Skippy scores 17 points. Proposal 967/1 (Healthy Competition, My Ass) (Baron von Skippy): AFF: bd, Glotmorf, Mithrandir (13), Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (6-0-0-0). Measure passes. Created 301/20. Created 441/9. Created 905/1. Baron von Skippy scores 11 + 8 (Literary Bonus) = 19 points. Proposal 968/1 (And now, the Dramatic Conclusion) (Baron von Skippy): AFF: bd, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko NEG: Glotmorf Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (5-1-0-0). Measure passes. Created 441/10. Created 1009/0. Baron von Skippy scores 10 points. Proposal 969/4 (The Game is Afoot! I'll Take "Anal Bum Covers" for 7,000) (Baron von Skippy): AFF: bd, Mithrandir NEG: Glotmorf, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (2-4-0-0). Measure fails. Thank $DEITY. I would veto it just because I hate the phrase "Anal Bum Cover". Baron von Skippy loses 3 points. Proposal 970/0 (Eddie's in the Space-Time Continuum) (Baron von Skippy): AFF: bd, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, The Voice, Wonko NEG: Squire of Dimness Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (5-1-0-0). Measure passes. Created 904/1. Baron von Skippy scores 13 points. Proposal 971/1 (untitled champagne proposal) (Squire of Dimness): AFF: bd, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, Wonko NEG: The Voice Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (5-1-0-0). Measure passes. Created 503/1. Squire of Dimness scores 16 points. Proposal 972/0 (Marching through Wall Street) (Glotmorf): AFF: bd, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness NEG: Wonko ABS: The Voice Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (4-1-1-0). Measure passes. Created 946/1. Glotmorf scores 11 points. Proposal 973/0 (Public Exposure) (Glotmorf): AFF: bd, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness NEG: Wonko ABS: The Voice Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (4-1-1-0). Measure passes. Created 946/2. Created massive ambiguity, as Wonko now has stock in lots of players who have not yet Gone Public. [[ I can't tell you how tempting it is to veto this... ]] Glotmorf scores 8 points. Proposal 974/0 (Bad Dog!) (Orc In a Spacesuit): AFF: bd, The Voice NEG: Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (2-4-0-0). Measure fails. Orc In a Spacesuit loses 2 points. Proposal 975/0 (Towel Racks) (bd): AFF: bd, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (6-0-0-0). Measure passes. Created 1010/0. bd scores 8 points. Proposal 976/0 (These Titles Ought To Last) (Orc In a Spacesuit): AFF: bd, Glotmorf NEG: Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (2-4-0-0). Measure fails. Orc In a Spacesuit loses 3 points. Proposal 978/0 (Can't Touch This) (Orc In a Spacesuit): AFF: bd NEG: Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (1-5-0-0). Measure fails. Orc In a Spacesuit loses 5 points. Proposal 979/0 (This Wasn't In My Job Description...) (Glotmorf): AFF: bd, Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice NEG: Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (5-1-0-0). Measure passes. Created 625/6. Glotmorf scores 12 points. Proposal 980/0 (A bit of Exorc.) (Wonko): AFF: bd, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko NEG: Glotmorf Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (5-1-0-0). Measure passes. Created 22/5. Wonko scores 16 + 9 (Limerick) = 25 points. Proposal 981/0 (A bit more Exorc.) (Wonko): AFF: bd, Mithrandir, The Voice, Wonko NEG: Glotmorf, Squire of Dimness Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (4-2-0-0). Measure passes. Created 815/3 Wonko scores 11 + 10 (Haiku) = 21 points. Proposal 982/0 (A little more) (Wonko): AFF: bd, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko NEG: Glotmorf Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (5-1-0-0). Measure passes. Created 257/4. Wonko scores 6 points. Proposal 983/0 (And finally...) (Wonko): AFF: bd, Mithrandir, The Voice, Wonko NEG: Glotmorf, Squire of Dimness Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (4-2-0-0). Measure passes. Created 154/10. Wonko scores 14 + 10 (Haiku) = 24 points. Proposal 984/0 (Fixing the Stock Market) (Wonko): AFF: bd, Mithrandir, Wonko NEG: Glotmorf, Squire of Dimness ABS: The Voice Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (3-2-1-0). Measure passes. Created 946/3. Cannot change Section E: No Section E exists. (Section G can still be added, even though it may not make sense.) Created 21/4. Wonko scores 14 points. Proposal 985/0 (Ambassador Biweekly) (Athena): AFF: bd, Squire of Dimness, The Voice NEG: Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (3-3-0-0). Measure fails. Athena loses 4 points. Proposal 986/0 (The World is An Atheist's Temple) (Athena): AFF: bd, The Voice, Wonko NEG: Glotmorf, Mithrandir, Squire of Dimness Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (3-3-0-0). Measure fails. Athena loses 2 points. Proposal 987/0 (Lord of the Stock Scam) (Athena): AFF: bd, Glotmorf, Squire of Dimness, The Voice, Wonko NEG: Mithrandir Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (5-1-0-0). Measure passes. Granted Wonko the title "Lord of the Stock Scam." Athena scores 14 points. Proposal 989/0 (Mutations BAD! Krunk smash!) (bd): AFF: bd, Squire of Dimness NEG: Glotmorf, Mithrandir, The Voice, Wonko Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (2-4-0-0). Measure fails. bd loses 1 point. Affirmative vote counts (for BW Grem): The Voice: 8 votes M-Tek: 11 votes House Grem: 1 votes bd: 13 votes Athena: 14 votes The Administrator: 6 votes Mithrandir: 24 votes (*) Baron von Skippy: 22 votes Squire of Dimness: 5 votes Glotmorf: 13 votes Orc In a Spacesuit: 5 votes Wonko: 21 votes Contrary vote counts (1pt per): Glotmorf: 11 votes (*) The Voice: 6 votes bd: 10 votes Mithrandir: 5 votes Squire of Dimness: 8 votes Wonko: 9 votes Psychic/IOB vote counts: Mithrandir: 33 votes (*) Wonko: 29 votes Squire of Dimness: 30 votes The Voice: 26 votes bd: 24 votes Glotmorf: 25 votes Iain: 2 votes From dave@technopagan.org Thu, 19 Sep 2002 00:01:05 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 00:01:05 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Daily Recognizer (Wednesday evening) Wild Card goes On Leave. Rob returns from Leave. Wonko wisely rules FALSE on CFI 990. "Fixing the Bandwidth" is 991/0, 991/1. (Wonko, please look this one over, as I intentionally mis-interpreted your words. You asked me to replace text that wasn't actually IN the proposal, so I took my best guess at what you meant.) "Funny, he doesn't look Druish..." is 993/0. "Service Malls" is 995/0. "This Island Ain't Big Enough For The Both Of Us" is 996/0, 996/1. "Cleanliness" is 997/0. "More Cleanliness" is 998/0. "Spiffiness with Speeders" is 999/0. "Crime Doesn't Pay" is 1000/0, 1000/1. "Wealthy Bastard goes Public" is 1001/0. "Stop It!" is 1002/0. "It's Tango Time!" is 1003/0. "Improving Speeders" is 1004/0. "A New World to Explore... and Conquer" is 1005/0. "Club B -- A Member of the Club A Family of Fine Clubs" is 1006/0. "Just What IS Level Ground Anyway?" is 1007/0. "Your Flat Or Mine?" is 1008/0, 1008/1. Glotmorf's CFI on the legality of voting on p958 is CFI 992, assigned to Iain. Wonko's CFI on the bandwidth limits is CFI 994, assigned to Squire of Dimness. bd moves on the Grid, even though as I haven't yet applied the effects of Entropy, such movement is pretty much pointless. :) Here comes the effects of Entropy... * The Grid is just about cleared out. (There's still a couple pesky beer cans, though.) * The Weather Man is asked to update the Weather (Entropy). * The Insta-Minister is asked to adjust the Insta-Rules as appropriate. * All Gremlins go into Hiding. Rocky becomes Active, thus preventing the AAAHHH! Gremlin from doing its thing. (Darned rules of precedence.) A couple other Gremlins become active at the end of the nweek. * All player have their Entropy zeroed and gain 10 Points. * Created 394/12 (switch endzones) * The Yeti moves onto the Grid. Wonko buys a shitload of stocks and really annoys me. (Since e specified EVERY stock, that includes a whole lot of proposal stocks, player stocks, blah blah blah.) Wonko transfers a lot of BNS. I can't find a way for em to legally give everything to the bank, though; looks like e's sorta stuck with all that cash. Votes come in here somewhere... Rocky drops a Big Rock (4 points, no siren). An election for the Ministry of Economic Affairs is now open. An election for the Ministry of Gremlins is now open. Nominations for both of the above will be accepted for five ndays. Robin (the Bandit Gremlin) steals 25 points from Wonko and gives them to Squire of Dimness. Pinhead (the Bowling Gremlin) gives 16 points to each player who authored a proposal (Wonko, The Voice, bd, Athena, Mithrandir, Baron von Skippy, Squire of Dimness, Glotmorf, and Orc In a Spacesuit). Curt and Rod become Active, and move round a bit. "Nweek 23 Insta-Prop" is 1011/0. The Weather Man is asked to update the Weather again (start of nweek). The Force Minister is asked to handle everyone's Force Recovery. The new Gremlin Number is 37. The Telephone is Ringing. Baron von Skippy, The Voice, Wild Card, Glotmorf, Wonko, bd, and Squire of Dimness each get one free Gnome (vSOI membership). The Gnome Minister is asked to randomly generate these Gnomes and award them. House Grem drafts the Witch Gremlin. The Flaming Gremlin Burns Naath. Not that it matters, since there's no Bandwidth limits this nweek. The Yeti moves round on the Grid, leaving a trail of Frozen squares in eir wake. (I'm not sure if they stay frozen, since I'm not sure what the Weather is like just now.) The Gnome Account cashes out; all vSOI members get 15 points. The Immunity Idol is awarded to Wonko. The Bandwidth Gremlin is Hiding; the Token of Proposals is not awarded. (Like it matters this nweek.) The Illegally Obtained Ballot is awarded to Mithrandir. Dear Goddess, I hope that's everything. Oh yeah - the Clock is now On. Today is nweek 23 (FINALLY), nday 1. ...dave -- David E. Smith http://www.technopagan.org/ http://metadave.net/ "You know I don't approve of violence ... but these ARE deadly robots!" From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Wed, 18 Sep 2002 21:06:10 -0400 Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 21:06:10 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Proposal: Speeder Upgrades Quoth Glotmorf, > On 9/17/02 at 8:01 PM Wonko wrote: > >> Quoth Glotmorf, >> >>> On 9/16/02 at 6:54 PM Wonko wrote: >>> >>>> {{ >>>> __Improving Speeders__ >>>> >>>> Create the following rule: >>>> {{ >>>> __Wealthy Bastard Speeder Upgrades__ {*(WBE,Speeder,Grid),2*} > > One thing in particular, before we get much further. I know it'll take a > substantial rewording, but...I'd like to see all these upgrades be things in > the rules in general, and not tied to a particular person or group. Say, for > example, that such-and-such an upgrade is available for speeders, and would > cost X resource units for a given entity to produce and install. Then have a > provision that any entity that has paid some up-front capitalization cost > (including a society that has written it into its charter) and that has gotten > the resource units from somewhere can produce said upgrades. > > If you then want to try to make WBE be the only entity that can salvage grid > objects to produce resource units, that's a separate issue. Maybe vSOI would > somehow combine gnomes to produce resource units. Maybe M-Tek Manufacturing > (a division of M-Tek Industries) could get resource units some other way, > including buying them from some entity that has the means to produce them. > > Is this realistic? In today's world of corporate espionage, trade secret laws > and reverse-engineering labs, I daresay it is. And since we've seen what the > Baron thinks of trade secret practices, I'd say some technologies wouldn't > stay secret for too long. They aren't tied to a particular person or group, except inasmuch as I'm only defining one group that creates them. If you'd like to propose something else that can create them, go ahead. It doesn't make sense, though, that ANYONE could just gather resources and make an upgrade - you'd need technical training, special tools, etc. But they are by no means limited to WBE - that's just all I'm gonna propose. As for salvaging for units, that's there because there was some complaining about vSOI's "something for nothing" attitude... I figured I'd pay people to gather things for me. Thus, I can hire/fire people depending on whether they're actually helping the company. As opposed to vSOI's, "you do nothing and we give you stuff" methods. >>>> A.2 Returns >>>> >>>> If a player has an Airspeeder that is Upgraded, and that upgrade is >>>> reversable, then e may Reverse the Upgrade. When a player reverses an >>>> Upgrade, BNS equal to 2/3 (rounded down) of the price of that upgrade is >>>> transferred from WBE to that player, unless this is more BNS than WBE >> has, >>>> in which case all of WBE's BNS is transferred instead. [[Note that this >>>> means you get no money if you return an upgrade when WBE is bankrupt]] >>>> Additionally, when an Upgrade is reversed, 9/10 of it's resource cost, >>>> rounded up, is added to the Raw Materials, and the Upgrade Space of the >>>> Airspeeder which had the Upgrade increases by the Size of the Upgrade. >>> >>> This should involve a warranty period, during which funds are >>> frozen/escrowed/held in reserve; otherwise, since shillings are >> automatically >>> disbursed, the chances of there being any money back from returns is >> slim to >>> none. >> >> Wording suggestions? > > Working on it. What would you, as a manufacturer of speeder upgrades, > consider a reasonable amount of time to have to wait for assets to be > unfrozen? I don't know. I didn't think I'd be emptying the fund regularly anyway, so I hadn't given it much thought... >>> What about heights? What if a speeder starts out in a square with deep >> depth? >>> Does it plow into the side of a high-depth square? >> >> Squares don't have 'height', just 'depth'. Right now, there's a restriction >> on moving to a square who's depth is 4 or more less than your current >> location's depth. With Boosters, you're able to boost up to the top of such >> squares, ignoring the depth consideration. It may be better to increase the >> price of this... If we ever start doing anything with Depth, this'll be a >> very good upgrade. > > Okay, let's say we were going to turn depth into a relative measurement, like > units above/below sea level. Where would you set sea level at this time? At > a square that has a depth of zero? > Maybe depth 1... which really should be -1, but isn't... -- Wonko From dave@technopagan.org Sat, 21 Sep 2002 04:42:01 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 04:42:01 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Daily Recognizer (Friday Night) PROPOSALS:: "Night of the Living Dead Stock Market" is 1016/0. [[ I forgot that -- and this was MY idea IIRC -- vetoed props get recreated as though shelved. ]] "From the Swirling Mists" is 1017/0. "Wonko: 5, Game: 1" is 1020/0. "vSOI v.2" is 1021/0. "Nowhere to Go but Down" is 1022/0. "Less is More: Bonus Boxes" is 1023/0. "Cleanup on Aisle 946" is 1024/0. "Default Chutzpah" is 1025/0. "The Infamous Rule 6!" is 1026/0. "What the Hell IS Bandwidth?" is 1027/0. "Mr. Luigi, This is Your Wakeup Call" is 1028/0. "Ambassador Biweekly v.2" is 1029/0. "You can't have THAT crazy a New Nyear" is 1030/0. "Eddit the Not-Powerful" is 1031/0. "Scarf Prop" is 1032/0. "Nseasons, Mk3" is 1033/0. "Friendsh shouldn't let friendsh proposh drunk" is 1034/0. "Wind (Again)" is 1035/0. "Less is More: Beverages" is 1036/0 "Let's Give 'Em A Hand!" is 1037/0. "Damn It, Glotmorf" is 1038/0. OTHER STUFF :: I cannot at this time pay Wonko for eir Ministerial duties as Jedi Lord, because, well, e doesn't get a salary for that, as far as I know. (My intent in the original Force rule was that getting all those extra Force Points would be eir compensation.) Squire enters the Grid, snags the sledge, buys a speeder, flies around. 5 points for the speeder (they're on sale!), 10 points for 2 fire gnomes. (I've already added all of Squire's Gnome transactions to the Web site, oh Gnome minister.) Baron von Skippy pays 23 points to the Witch Gremlin, and Wonko is Cursed. Baron von Skippy buys an Airspeeder. Wonko loses 5 Style for, once again, retaining the Pink Scarf. Wonko has earned the Title, "Zen Master of Nomic". bd's stocks CFI is 1018, assigned to The Voice. Glotmorf's stocks CFI is 1019, assigned to Squire of Dimness. The Voice enters the Grid, spends 20 points, and (I'm assuming the Gnome Minister will take care of the Gnome stuff) eventually becomes a Priest of Apophis. Random asides: * I noticed, in one of the emails I won't be processing tonight, that the Gnome Minister recognized something and said the Web site was updated, but, well, it wasn't. Is the aforementioned Gnome Minister still using the nomic.net pages that I've said are gonna be defunct at least through the end of the nweek? I certainly hope not. (http://www.technopagan.org/nomic/ministry/YOUR-MINISTRY-HERE/ , same username and password as before.) * The Ministers and I need something -- I don't know what -- but some central way of seeing who's recognized what. Suggestions from the technically inclined are welcomed. (I'm thinking something along the lines of a webmail interface, subscribed to the business list, where we can make comments on emails and update their relative status. Heck, we could probably steal a bug-tracking system...) ...dave -- David E. Smith http://www.technopagan.org/ http://metadave.net/ "You know I don't approve of violence ... but these ARE deadly robots!" From dplepage@twcny.rr.com Sat, 21 Sep 2002 14:06:17 -0400 Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 14:06:17 -0400 From: Wonko dplepage@twcny.rr.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Gnarg! Okay, on the right list this time: First of all, I amend my proposal entitled "Spiffiness with Speeders" to add at the end of section A of the proposed new rule the text "Any player who owns an airspeeder may transfer ownership of that airspeeder to any other player, provided that the new owner does not object to this." I add to the end of the same proposal the text, "Remove section F.9 from rule 301." [[so that Speeders aren't defined in multiple places]] I buy 20 Airspeeders, for 100 points. I enter the Grid at (11,1) [[Ouch! Fire!]] I buy a Grain Gnome, an Earth Gnome, a Summer Gnome, and a Water Gnome. I mix the Earth and Summer Gnomes into a Grape Gnome. I mix the Grape and Water Gnomes into a Wine Gnome. I squeeze the Grain Gnome for a Bread. I squeeze the Wine Gnome for Wine. I buy a Pinball gun. I shoot the Voice. I move to (11,2). I invoke Apophis. I wish to become a Priest of Apophis. Having become a Priest of Apophis, I will now increase my Destruction. In accordance with r942, I can do this by decreasing any Nice Dimension by an integral number of points, provided that Dimension remains positive. I choose, as the first dimension to be reduced in this fashion, Athena's Score. [[The rule doesn't say I decrease one of *my* nice dimensions. :) ]] I reduce it by an amount equal to Athena's Score. I then reduce every other player's score to zero in the same manner. I then reduce the Activity, Charm, Respect, and Style of every player (including myself) to 0 in this manner. [[Don't worry about missing Airspeeder Sale Week - if my speeder proposal passes, I'll give everyone who doesn't have a speeder one of the 20 I just bought. So really, you're all saving money, 'cause you'll get them for free instead of for 5 or 15 points.]] I issue the following proposal: {{ __A limit on the power of Faith__ In rule 942, replace the text, " Priests of Apophis may increase their Destruction by decreasing a Nice Dimension an integral number of points provided the Dimension's final value is positive" with the text, " Priests of Apophis may increase their Destruction by decreasing one of eir Nice Dimensions by an integral number of points provided that Dimension's final value is positive" Increase each player's Activity, Charm, Respect, Score, and Style by the amount each of those values was decreased for that player as a result of any player's use of r942. [[I would suggest that the admin simply not bother to change anyone's dimensions in accordance with my actions, as all that will be negated at the end of the nweek anyway.]] }} -- Wonko -- Wonko From mhaywood383@hotmail.com Sat, 21 Sep 2002 21:42:05 -0400 Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 21:42:05 -0400 From: Mark Haywood mhaywood383@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Sorry, I'm out Hey, all. Sorry, but I can't keep up with this and maintain my life at the same time. I'm trying to juggle work, school, a social life, and Nomic, and I was able to, until Nomic picked back up. So, unable to keep it all going, I've decided Nomic's gotta go. Maybe I'll come back for a brief stint in the summer. It was fun while it lasted, though. First, though: I give all of my BNS to Wonko, to alleviate eir poverty. I give the Illegally Obtained Ballot to Baron von Skippy, who tied with me for whatever it was that got me it in the first place. I give my Entropy to Orc in a Spacesuit, for the hell of it. I give my Activity, if I still have any, to Dan, who's coming close to Garbage Collection. I forfeit the game of B Nomic. Bye. ________________________________________________________________________ Mithrandir _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Sat, 21 Sep 2002 21:47:40 -0400 Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 21:47:40 -0400 From: Baron von Skippy baronvonskippy@hotmail.com Subject: [Bnomic-private] Sorry, I'm out >Hey, all. Sorry, but I can't keep up with this and maintain my life at the >same time. I'm trying to juggle work, school, a social life, and Nomic, and >I was able to, until Nomic picked back up. So, unable to keep it all going, >I've decided Nomic's gotta go. Maybe I'll come back for a brief stint in >the summer. It was fun while it lasted, though. > >First, though: >I give all of my BNS to Wonko, to alleviate eir poverty. >I give the Illegally Obtained Ballot to Baron von Skippy, who tied with me >for whatever it was that got me it in the first place. >I give my Entropy to Orc in a Spacesuit, for the hell of it. >I give my Activity, if I still have any, to Dan, who's coming close to >Garbage Collection. >I forfeit the game of B Nomic. >Bye. >________________________________________________________________________ >Mithrandir > -Godspeed, Mithrandir. Perhaps we shall meet again someday.- [[BvS]] _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From dave@technopagan.org Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:01:32 +0000 (GMT) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:01:32 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Daily Recognizer (Tuesday morning) A disclaimer: There's a bloody lot of stuff. I believe I've caught everything mailed to the -business list, but to be honest I'm not completely certain of this. If I've overlooked your vitally important proosal or game action, let me know, or (preferably) just re-submit it. If it involves Gnomes or the Force, as a couple of 'em did, I didn't overlook it, just ignored it. Is everyone back on spoon-business@nomic.net? If so, I'll make bnomic-private not-a-public-forum-anymore. Proposals ::: "Olive Trees" is 1040/0. "Obsolete Reference Fix" is 1041/0. "Repeal Rule 298!" is 1042/0. "Spiffiness with Speeders" is 999/1. "A limit on the power of Faith" is 1043/0. "Been there, Done that, Bought the T-shirt" is 1044/0. "Here now, don't start that again!" is 1045/0. "Repeal Rule 753!" is 1046/0. "Repeal Rule 817!" is 1047/0. "Chads, Hanging and Otherwise" is 1048/0. "The Power of Dave" is 1049/0, 1049/1 and darn funny. "NomiCrack" is 1050/0 and a little creepy. (I'm not used to being a character, much less an apparent hardass. Next time I'm in town, Squire, we are gonna have a SERIOUS talk.) "Just Gotta Flick This Lil' Switch..." is 1051/0. "Hey, Why Can't We Just Start Over?" is 1052/0. Non-Proposal Stuff That's Sorta Like Proposals::: "Athena's Society" is created. Its charter number is 1039. It gets revised a little bit later on. Glotmorf's excessively verbose CFI is 1053, assigned to bd. Grid Stuff ::: bd enters the Grid and buys an Airspeeder. E cannot become a Priest of Eddie, lacking the proper materiel to invoke Eddie. Aside: when I added bd to the Grid, I also added a couple of radar blips for which I had not previously accounted. The Voice buys an Airspeeder. Orc cannot buy an Airspeeder (e's broke, thanks to Wonko). E does grab the Shield, and a Sheep Gnome from the Grid. Wonko, for no adequately explored reason, buys a score of speeders, and a Pinball Gun. E then pings The Voice, invokes Apophis, and does mean evil stuff to everyone else's Dimensions. (If it actually worked, that means Wonko's Destruction is roughly 2640. Suffice it to say really BIG.) The Economy ::: Wonko takes the first step in what will be a long and painful road towards straightening out the stock market, by giving all eir player stock to the respective issuers. Now all we need to do is get Mithrandir and bd to give up their outrageously large sums of random stuff and we're set... Wonko, in a gesture of supreme class, tries to give 10 points to BvS. Unfortunately, as e drained all of eir own score into Destruction, this fails. Athena, bd, and The Voice each attempt to privatize their stocks. This fails, as BvS still owned 1 share of just about everybody when they attempted to do so. BvS, later, sold all of the stocks e owned, but thanks to Wonko's Destruction trick, they all sold at a price of nothin'. BvS' attempts to privatize fail, as both Mithrandir and Orc owns zillions of shares of BvS. Mithrandir Forfeits, after all that goes down. Eir stocks, having no other specified disposition, presumably evaporate into nothingness. Eir money goes to Wonko; most of eir other actions aren't permitted. (I'll let the IOB slide, because it's sorta ambiguous anyway. The IOB goes to BvS.) Orc is able to Privatize. Squire cannot place 24 of eir shares up for sale, as e failed to name a purchase price. BvS cannot buy them for the same reason. Stuff That Fits Nowhere Else ::: Glotmorf toasts the departing Mithrandir. (E can't buy the Champagne, because champagne isn't actually for sale. Nice symbolism, though.) From glotmorf@earthlink.net Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:49:16 -0400 Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:49:16 -0400 From: Glotmorf glotmorf@earthlink.net Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Daily Recognizer (Tuesday morning) On 9/24/02 at 8:01 AM David E. Smith wrote: >Glotmorf toasts the departing Mithrandir. (E can't buy the Champagne, >because champagne isn't actually for sale. Nice symbolism, though.) I didn't buy champagne. I bought wine. Wine is for sale. Glotmorf From dave@technopagan.org Fri, 27 Sep 2002 04:47:32 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 04:47:32 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] The Daily Recognizer (Thursday evening) PROPOSALS ::: "The Power of Dave" is 1049/2, 1049/3. "Fun with Food" is 1055/0. "Cleanliness" is 997/1. "More Cleanliness" is 998/1. "Crime Doesn't Pay" is 1000/2, 1000/3. "So You Want To Be A Writer..." is 1057/0. "Fix the scotch" is 1059/0. "Improving Speeders" is 1004/2. "The Royal Flush" is 1060/0, 1060/1 "The Hand of Hands" is 1061/0. "The International Stop Symbol" is 1062/0. UNHOLY JUSTICE ::: Athena's CFI on Destruction and Nice Dimensions is 1054, assigned to bd. bd rules FALSE on CFI 1053. bd's Destruction CFI is 1056, assigned to (elided -- CFI was rescinded). bd loses 1 point for rescinding eir CFI. bd's other Destruction CFI is 1058, assigned to Rob. THE ECONOMY ::: Athena Privatizes eir stock, as does The Voice. Wonko sells eir Corporate stocks, gets some points via conversion, and does some Jedi stuff. E also buys another twenty speeders. (Anyone care to bet he's gonna place 'em around the Grid, and try to leapfrog from one to the next, trying to visit all 400 squares of the Grid in a day?) Squire goes public, placing 24 shares of emself on the market (57 BNS per). OTHER RANDOM STUFF ::: Glotmorf purchases, and drinks, a glass of Wine (not champagne, my bad) to toast Mithrandir. (There oughta be a rule for toasting someone -- it's quicker and less complicated than a Respect Prop, but still a nifty idea.) (-3 points, +3 Style) Glotmorf: A (cursory) examination of the past few nweeks' vote results -- basically everything since the first win/emergency thing -- I counted up your current charm as 15.5. Mea culpa. (Also, re p965 and the mighty morphin veto: No, I didn't take away points for its failure, since it was vetoed. Although I did, now that you mention it, mistakenly give you points for the veto -- under the old system, you'd get a few points for a veto, which you don't now. Thanks for reminding me -- you and Iain are both docked points which you shouldn't have been given. :) Wonko vents eir frustration, erm, Destruction, down to 1000. Then it turns out that it was never really that high anyway... All of eir Nice Dimensions are down to zero, and eir Destruction is a somewhat more reasonable 500-somethin'. (For reference: I'm assuming that Wonko's attempt to drain eir own dimensions was legal, for obvious reasons, but I'm still not applying it to the Roster, since even that may be undone by one of this nweek's many proposals. I'm also assuming that eir attempt to do the same to everyone else was illegal.) The Voice is credited 2 points for Weather stuff. (If you could just tally this stuff up and only invoice me once per nweek, like the other ministers, that'd be swell.) Wonko goes On Leave, returns from Leave, and tries some nonsensical shit involving negative numbers that I don't believe is legal. Orc bought a speeder a couple ndays ago. (This was, in fact, legal, though Wonko's latest 'all your points are belong to us' scheme made it appear not to be so. Dude, you've gotta find better ways to point out potential broken-ness. :) Athena's Society changes its charter, again. The Clock is adjusted for the Writ of Delay; today is nweek 23, nday 8. Voting is in progress. Finally. Oh yeah, there were no nominations for either the Ministry of Gremlins or the Ministry of Economic Affairs. Gee, thanks. Ballot coming under separate cover. ...dave -- David E. Smith dave@[technopagan.org|metadave.net|bureau42.com] From dave@technopagan.org Fri, 27 Sep 2002 04:49:15 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 04:49:15 +0000 (GMT) From: David E. Smith dave@technopagan.org Subject: [Bnomic-private] NWEEK 23 BALLOT Just so you know... I will declare another writ of delay before the end of the nweek, just so everyone has time to read all this. There are 61 proposals on this big bad mofo. Proposal 991/1: Fixing The Bandwidth (Wonko) Proposal 993/0: Funny, he doesn't look Druish... (Wonko) Proposal 995/0: Service Malls (Wonko) Proposal 996/1: This Island Ain't Big Enough for Both of Us (Glotmorf) Proposal 997/1: Cleanliness (Wonko) Proposal 998/1: More Cleanliness (Wonko) Proposal 999/1: Spiffiness with Speeders (Wonko) Proposal 1000/3: Crime Doesn't Pay (Wonko) Proposal 1001/0: Wealthy Bastard goes Public (Wonko) Proposal 1002/0: Stop It! (Wonko) Proposal 1003/0: It's Tango Time! (Wonko) Proposal 1004/2: Improving Speeders (Wonko) Proposal 1005/1: A New World to Explore... and Conquer (Baron von Skippy) Proposal 1006/0: Club B -- A Member of the Club A Family of Fine Clubs (Glotmorf) Proposal 1007/0: Just What IS Level Ground Anyway? (Glotmorf) Proposal 1008/1: Your Flat or Mine? (Glotmorf) Proposal 1011/0: Nweek 23 Insta-Prop (House Grem) Proposal 1012/0: Repeal Rule 408! (The Voice) Proposal 1013/0: Less is More: Capital Resources (Baron von Skippy) Proposal 1014/0: Repeal Rule 469! (The Voice) Proposal 1015/0: DimShips are gone, I tell you! (The Voice) Proposal 1016/0: Night of the Living Dead Stock Market (Glotmorf) Proposal 1017/0: From the Swirling Mists (Squire of Dimness) Proposal 1020/0: Wonko: 5, Game: 1 (Baron von Skippy) Proposal 1021/0: vSOI v.2 (Baron von Skippy) Proposal 1022/0: Nowhere to Go but Down (Glotmorf) Proposal 1023/0: Less is More: Bonus Boxes (Glotmorf) Proposal 1024/0: Cleanup on Aisle 946 (Glotmorf) Proposal 1025/0: Default Chutzpah (Glotmorf) Proposal 1026/0: The Infamous Rule 6! (Glotmorf) Proposal 1027/0: What the Hell IS Bandwidth? (Glotmorf) Proposal 1028/0: Mr. Luigi, This is Your Wakeup Call (Glotmorf) Proposal 1029/0: Ambassador Biweekly v.2 (Athena) Proposal 1030/0: You can't have THAT crazy a New Nyear (Athena) Proposal 1031/0: Eddit the Not-Powerful (Baron von Skippy) Proposal 1032/0: Scarf Prop (The Voice) Proposal 1033/0: Nseasons, Mk3 (The Voice) Proposal 1034/0: Friends shouldn't let friendsh proposh drunk (Baron von Skippy) Proposal 1035/0: Wind (Again) (The Voice) Proposal 1036/0: Less is More: Beverages (The Voice) Proposal 1037/0: Let's Give 'Em A Hand! (The Voice) Proposal 1038/0: Damn It, Glotmorf (The Voice) Proposal 1040/0: Olive Trees (Athena) Proposal 1041/0: Obsolete Reference Fix (The Voice) Proposal 1042/0: Repeal Rule 298! (The Voice) Proposal 1043/0: A limit on the power of Faith (Wonko) Proposal 1044/0: Been there, Done that, Bought the T-shirt (Wonko) Proposal 1045/0: Here now, don't start that again! (Wonko) Proposal 1046/0: Repeal Rule 753! (The Voice) Proposal 1047/0: Repeal Rule 817! (The Voice) Proposal 1048/0: Chads, Hanging and Otherwise (The Voice) Proposal 1049/3: The Power of Dave (Wonko) Proposal 1050/0: NomiCrack (Squire of Dimness) Proposal 1051/0: Just Gotta Flick This Lil' Switch... (Glotmorf) Proposal 1052/0: Hey, Why Can't We Just Start Over? (Glotmorf) Proposal 1055/0: Fun with Food (Athena) Proposal 1057/0: So You Want to be a Writer.... (Glotmorf) Proposal 1059/0: Fix the scotch (Wonko) Proposal 1060/1: The Royal Flush (Wonko) Proposal 1061/0: The Hand of Hands (Wonko) Proposal 1062/0: The International Stop Symbol (Wonko) ...dave