[Bnomic-private] Synopsis

[Glotmorf]

On 8/16/02 at 8:54 AM Wonko wrote:

>Quoth Orc In A Spacesuit,
>
>> [A bit about who we are, conversation-style]
>> 
>> Orc: For me, try a college kid at home for the summer stumbles upon the
>> game of Nomic, and in 2 days finds B Nomic, that night reads the=
 ruleset,
>> and the next day joins the game.  Old and new people, what's your story?
>> 
>> bd: I read about calvinball on c2.com wiki. I read about nomic. I want=
 to
>> nomic.net. I searched alive games. End of story.
>
>One of my friends returned from vacation, bringing tales of a strange game
>similar to some that I knew but much more freeform. I looked it up, and
>soon
>a face game had started among myself and some associates. Our ruleset,
>however, soon became terminally screwed, and I began to look elsewhere for
>Nomic to play. I found this game on December 10, 5 days after its=
 creation,
>and joined about a week later.

I'd played Nomic off and on over a few years.  I was a winner in Nomopoly=
 II, played unremarkably in a few Imperials, and tried to run Blind Nomic=
 (which gave me an appreciation for Administrator Burnout).  Last December=
 I decided I was undergamed and went looking for Nomic games -- Yahoo=
 yields interesting search results for "nomic" -- and found nomic.net, and=
 consequently B Nomic.  I joined in nweek 3.  Never played FTF, and am=
 inclined to think it'd be considerably more difficult, at least because of=
 tracking the current ruleset.  FTF in a cybercafe or a college computer=
 lab would be another matter...

>> I have database experience in C and Visual Basic, so could contribute to
>> this being set up, but I don't have the java and other stuff down enough
>yet
>> to do it all by myself.
>> 
>> If nothing else, this system could provide a more detailed and accurate
>grid
>> and roster, and automate some of the minstries.  The reason I bring this
>> idea
>> up is that Dave seems overwhelmed, especially with the 1000 cfi and=
 other
>> foolishness.
>
>I've actually been working on programs that work as you've described - the
>Ministry of the Force website, for example, is actually written by a=
 spiffy
>little interface program I wrote, so all I have to do is post it online.
>I'd
>also been thinking of adapting ForceLord slightly to take on other
>ministries as well (I actually laid out all the plans for a GridLord
>program, but I never wrote it 'cause WC then got the Ministry). But I=
 don't
>know much Java or any other web-oriented language, so I'm not sure if what
>I've written can be useful at all...

Something that might be useful is externally-connectable databases, like=
 SQL or ODBC servers, so that coding and database development isn't=
 restricted to a single server.  I'm coding on Joel's server, maintaining=
 my own database and connecting to Dave's on a read-only basis, but it=
 isn't technically necessary that this be the case.  Not that I fault Joel=
 in any way, but somehow I suspect he doesn't really want to give a login=
 ID and database to each player of a single game...

>If we wrote it all as one program, wouldn't it be easiest just to make it
>like some sort of MUD?

I hear tell there was a Nomic MUD out there.  No idea how well it operated.

A MUD (I might suggest MUX, actually) would give us a user environment=
 independent of the host's operating system, which would probably be a Good=
 Thing...I'd guess Joel doesn't want that many people to have shell=
 accounts on nomic.net.  But you'd need something that could act as a=
 database (MU*s don't appear to have effective data search mechanisms),=
 something that permitted hierarchical access to data (central pool run by=
 Mr. A that peripheral pools connected to), and access to web and email=
 (can't say I'd want to try to study the rules through telnet).  I don't=
 believe MU*s are up to all this yet.

>>=
 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> [A summary]
>> 
>> Seems like bd ought to be getting a Mithril Buttplate from all the
>> kicking he's getting.  Basically, several people kick him, a lot.
>> Thousands of times, even.  Wonko enjoys it, and BvS points out
>> if bd really could be kicked once for every CFI (it's been called
>> Unbridled Hostility by some), it would be a very interesting way to
>> win (5 points per kick).  Of course, this can't happen, because even
>> if what he did was kickable, you can only get kicked once per forum
>> message.
>
>But we're not kicking em for eir forum message - we're kicking em for
>actions taking therein. E may not be kicked twice for the same action
>taken,
>but the per forum thing is for issues where the kick is delivered not for
>what game action e took, but for what message e sent (for example, if e
>were
>to send an HTML message).
>
>I believe I can kick em 1001 times, once per offensive action taken.
>
>The Baron, however, cannot perform all those kicks, as I already kicked bd
>for all those actions.
>
>I would then like to point out that the buttplates rule does not supercede
>the kicking rule; therefore, while bd does gain the attribute=
 'buttplated',
>it does not stop me from gaining well over 1000 points (5005, to be=
 exact),
>or from gaining the attribute 'Supreme Kicker of Asses'.

>From Rule 260: "Multiple Kicks in the Ass may not be given in response to a=
 single Action or Forum message."

Guess we need a ruling on whether that's an inclusive "or" or an exclusive=
 "or".

Aside from that, we might have a problem kicking bd once per action taken,=
 since any single one of those 1001 actions (Scheherazade Nomic?) isn't all=
 that offensive...just stupid.  It's the amassing of them that's offensive.=
  For example, if I take my portion of them (70-some, wasn't it?), I could=
 regard it as a shitload of judgment work I'd probably be stuck with, a=
 massive insult to my intelligence, a waste of perfectly good email archive=
 space, etc.  But any one of those 70-some wouldn't be that much work to=
 judge, might be funny in a retro-uin sorta thang, wouldn't consume that=
 much space, and so on...

Aha!  Now I see it.  "Action" was redefined in the context of Rule 260:=
 "Whenever a player performs an action that is on the List of Generally=
 Abhorred Stuff in a public forum, any player may respond in a public forum=
 to the forum message containing that action, indicating that e is giving=
 that player a Kick in the Ass, and the reason why."  So even though that=
 message contained 1001 game actions, the collective mass of them produce a=
 single kick-in-the-ass action.  And since Unbridled Hostility against the=
 collective body of players is sort of part of the game, I'd say this body=
 of game actions resulted in one kick-in-the-ass action of Unbridled=
 Hostility (insulted intelligence, spammage, etc) against each player=
 individually.  So whoever feels offended by bd's game-action collection=
 gets eir own kick.  One kick apiece.

That's still, what, 14 kicks?  Works for me.

						Glotmorf