[Bnomic-private] Judgement on CFI 977

[Joshua Caudle]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Glotmorf" <glotmorf@earthlink.net>
To: <bnomic-private@ysolde.ucam.org>
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Bnomic-private] Judgement on CFI 977


On 9/6/02 at 11:51 AM Joshua Caudle wrote:

>>On 9/6/02 at 2:25 AM Joshua Caudle wrote:
>>
>>>I judge False on CFI 977.
>>>
>>>Analysis:  In part A Orc attempts to resaon that because f the
>inclusivity
>>>of the language provided by rule 503,  rule 636 has no application,
>>>however,
>>>rule 33 states "each rule has an attribute called Chutzpah, which is a
>>>positive integer, in the event of a conflict between two or more rules,
>the
>>>tiule with the highest Chutzpah takes precedence." therefore since  rule
>>>636
>>>has a chutzpah of 2 and rule 503 only has a chutzpah of 1. it is illegal
>to
>>>remove from players items in eir possession. this therefore makes all
>other
>>>parts of said arguement moot.
>>>
>>>However:
>>>I myself am placing a call for inquiry on this same action.
>>>
>>>Statement: Any player according to the rulset as of nweek 22 nday 5 may
>>>drink a glass of Champagne by simply announcing that the action in taking
>>>place in a public forum. if no particular glass is stated in said
>>>proclamation, the admistrator must choose an otherwise unclaimed glasss
>of
>>>Champagne for the player to drink. If no such glasses exist the
>>>administrator must create said glass.
>>>
>>>Argument:
>>>Rule 503 in nweek 22 does not state that a glass must be in a player's
>>>possesion inorder for the player to drink said glass. However since Rule
>>>636
>>>has greater Chutzpah athan Rule 503 the glass cannot be in the possession
>>>of
>>>another player. Therefore it si the duty of the administrator to select a
>>>legal glass for consumption as stated in Rule 25. If no appropiate
>glasses
>>>are currently available, Rule 25 would also plae the onus of creating
>said
>>>glass on the administrator.
>>
>>This was handled by an earlier CFI.
>
>hey you have to remember I haven't been here that long and there's no cfi's
>even remotely pertaining to this quiestion currently in the DB I did the
>research  and this seems to go along with the ruleset.
>
>>Since a glass of champagne is an alcoholic beverage, and since there is a
>rule providing >for the creation of generic alcoholic beverages, the
>creation of glasses of champagne is >regulated.  Since it is regulated,
>there can be no not-explicitly-rule-stated procedure >for the creation of a
>glass of champagne.
>
>unfortunately after scanning the current ruleset for all rules regarding
>alcoholic beverages, including the gnome rules each rule containing
>information about alcoholic beverages states informaiton about specific
>alcoholic beverages except fotr the effects of intoxication rule whihc
>simply gives you the specifics of  how BAC works. all other beverage rules
>state the the drink must be in the possesion of hte player in order to be
>drank. and under the permissibility of the unprohibited rule this would
>mean
>that since it is not specifically profhibited by the rules, it is therefore
>permissable. and if I'm wrong please pouint me in the correct direction...
>
>>Rule 25 doesn't apply in this case.  The creation of a glass of champagne
>isn't a duty >not assigned  to other players.  It's a gamestate change, and
>that's managed by the >administrator already.
>
>even if it is a change in gamestate, all rules regarding gamestate do not
>otherwise prohibitthe admin form changing hte gamestate in said manner
>thusly under hte permissibility of the unprohibited rule stands.
>
>>How many times are we gonna spank this puppy?
>
>as long as it takes to get the point across so that the loophole can be
>recognisedand dealt wiht appropriately.
>
>-Squire
>*feeling generally defiant*

Rule 502:

"The first nday of each nyear is New nYear's nDay. To mark the New nYear
each player may post a message in a public forum requesting one alcoholic
beverage of their choice. E then receive one unit of this beverage, which
must be rule defined, regardless of any restrictions other rules may specify
on the creation of such items. A player may only request their free
alcoholic beverage during the first nweek of the nyear."

It ain't much, but it does allow for the creation of generic alcoholic
beverages.  Which means if there isn't a place in the rules that says
specifically how one can acquire, for example, a Mike's Hard Lemonade, even
though there's rules for what one does if it's consumed, then creation of
Mike's Hard Lemonade is still regulated: you can only get them once a nyear.

Aside from that, there's now Rule 441.B.20, Champagne Gnomes, which says
glasses of champagne can be created by squeezing the appropriate gnome.
This is actually more recent than r502; r502 was the basis for the judgment
on the original CFI.  Either way, the creation of glasses of champagne is
regulated, and therefore not permitted as an ad-hoc event under r18.

Glotmorf


thanks Glotmorf, this is the typpe of clarification I needed I'd forgotten
about the New nYear's nDay rule...I am a newbie, nuances of the ruleset can
be kinda challenging... thusly why I eaerly read my mail...esp since no one
else sends me anything....


-Squire