[BNomic-Public] Wonko's refresh prop

[Daniel Lepage]

On Thursday, December 18, 2003, at 07:50 AM, Glotmorf wrote:

> In eir refresh prop, Wonko is proposing the destruction of, among 
> other things,
> Athena's Society and OrcTech, both of which effectively belong to me.  
> I have
> objected to this, but so far e's still insisting that that should be 
> part of eir refresh prop.
>
> First of all, I dislike the idea that a player's possessions might be 
> simply voted out of
> existence because another player doesn't see a purpose for them.  I 
> don't like it
> happening to me, and I suspect no one else would want it to happen to 
> them.
>
> But while I dislike the idea of doing it as a proposal, I truly resent 
> it being done as a
> refresh prop, since a refresh prop doesn't even require majority 
> approval.  Once the
> Procedure begins, it will implement a proposed refresh prop, whichever 
> one that is,
> and if there's only one refresh prop that one will get implemented 
> because there's no
> other to choose from.
>
> Therefore, Wonko's very proposing of a refresh prop that destroys my 
> societies
> would in fact guarantee their destruction, in the name of "cleaning 
> up".  Only my
> submission of another refresh prop prevents Wonko's "cleaning up" from 
> occurring
> solely on eir say-so.
>
> I'll try to keep my refresh prop current as per comparable changes in 
> Wonko's, but I
> ask for player support for my refresh prop in the name of sanctity of 
> property.

I find it hard to respect your 'sanctity of property' when the 
societies I Refreshed to destroy were taken by you from other players 
in the first place, and while you still hold my WBE :)

I didn't really think about this as destruction of property. My goal 
was more along the lines of garbage collection - since the societies 
have done nothing in a long time, and it seems unlikely that they will. 
Thus, I am trying to remove them, as they appear to be very similar to 
absent players.
	I disagree with the claim that these societies are your "property". If 
they are, then I wholeheartedly support their destruction - I don't 
like the idea of a society being 'owned' by any single player. IMHO, a 
society is an entity much like a player; while I might go so far as to 
agree that it is owned collectively by the players of the game, or even 
just by the members of the society, I would not consider it to be owned 
by a single player unless it were a scam society such as the Int'l Bank 
of bd or Wonko's Cashbox; if a society exists solely for the purposes 
of exploiting a bug in the rules, I am entirely in favor of destroying 
it and patching the hole.

OrcTech certainly is a candidate for Garbage Collection - nobody uses 
it for anything, and nothing distinguishes it from a newly-created 
society. Therefore, there is no reason why it should continue to exist 
as a society.

Athena's Society, the attempted Tontine, has a potential benefit, but 
only if the society has the power to force a player to transfer eir 
points while being On Leave. Having now read the rules in more detail, 
I am convinced that the society does not. I stand by my claim that r205 
at the moment effectively traps players who are On Leave; even if I'm 
wrong, r205 states that coming Off Leave is implicit not in the act of 
taking a game action, but in the act of taking a game action *in the 
public forum*. This requires the player to post an action to the public 
forum themselves; a society obviously cannot force somebody to do this, 
as even the Ruleset itself doesn't have that power.

Upon further consideration, I suspect that automation scripts in 
general do not work; even the old official Automation Scripts weren't 
legal, though the SoL has now lapsed. I say this based on r16/3: 
"Actions may only be taken in public fora." This means that a player 
may not take any action unless e explicitly states that e does in the 
public forum; automation scripts and societies failed to supersede this 
rule, and so neither has or ever had the power to force a player to 
take an action.




Nonetheless, I'd be happy to keep two copies of my RP, one with the 
societal repeals, one without.


But I encourage people to vote for the one which repeals them.

New Refresh Prop(s) coming soon.

-- 
Wonko